Discussion:
Fast monostable with a transistpor array
(too old to reply)
Bill Sloman
2024-06-13 15:20:10 UTC
Permalink
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas
HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his mononstable and level
shifter.

It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.

https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216

Two of the NPN parts could make up my emitter-coupled monostable, and
the two PNP parts could level shift the output.

The Renesas website offers Spice models for both the NPN and the PNP
transistors, which one could plug into an LTSpice simulation, at the
cost of making it look too messy for the more sensitive designers to be
able to look at.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Norton antivirus software.
www.norton.com
Edward Rawde
2024-06-14 03:25:37 UTC
Permalink
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.

Version 4
SHEET 1 2848 1304
WIRE -592 528 -752 528
WIRE -240 528 -592 528
WIRE -64 528 -240 528
WIRE 32 528 -64 528
WIRE -64 544 -64 528
WIRE 32 560 32 528
WIRE -592 576 -592 528
WIRE -240 592 -240 528
WIRE -752 624 -752 528
WIRE -64 656 -64 624
WIRE -592 704 -592 656
WIRE -464 704 -592 704
WIRE -384 704 -464 704
WIRE -240 704 -240 672
WIRE -240 704 -320 704
WIRE -128 704 -240 704
WIRE -464 736 -464 704
WIRE -240 736 -240 704
WIRE -752 784 -752 704
WIRE -64 784 -64 752
WIRE 32 784 32 640
WIRE 32 784 -64 784
WIRE -592 832 -592 704
WIRE 32 832 32 784
WIRE -512 880 -528 880
WIRE -464 880 -464 816
WIRE -464 880 -512 880
WIRE -448 880 -464 880
WIRE -384 880 -320 704
WIRE -320 880 -384 704
WIRE -240 880 -240 816
WIRE -240 880 -256 880
WIRE -208 880 -240 880
WIRE -32 880 -208 880
WIRE -208 912 -208 880
WIRE -512 928 -512 880
WIRE -592 1008 -592 928
WIRE -512 1008 -512 992
WIRE -512 1008 -592 1008
WIRE -208 1008 -208 976
WIRE 32 1008 32 928
WIRE 32 1008 -208 1008
WIRE -592 1040 -592 1008
WIRE 32 1040 32 1008
FLAG 32 1040 0
FLAG -592 1040 0
FLAG -752 784 0
SYMBOL RES -608 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMBOL res 16 544 R0
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 2Meg
SYMBOL cap -384 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL cap -256 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL VOLTAGE -752 608 R0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMBOL npn -32 832 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL npn -528 832 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q2
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL res -256 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 4.7Meg
SYMBOL res -480 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 4.701Meg
SYMBOL cap -528 928 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL cap -224 912 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL npn -128 656 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q10
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL RES -256 576 R0
WINDOW 3 30 76 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMBOL RES -48 640 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
TEXT -768 1176 Left 0 !.tran 0 150u 50u startup
TEXT -776 1112 Left 0 ;This example schematic is supplied for informational/educational purposes only.\nJuly 7, 2008 by Bill Sloman
(but blame the Q10 output stage on James Arthur).
TEXT -480 1176 Left 0 !.model NUHFARRY NPN\n+ (IS = 1.840E - 16 XTI = 3.000E + 00 EG = 1.110E + 00 VAF = 7.200E + 01\n+ VAR = 4.500E
+ 00 BF = 1.036E + 02 ISE = 1.686E - 19 NE = 1.400E + 00\n+ IKF = 5.400E - 02 XTB = 0.000E + 00 BR = 1.000E + 01 ISC = 1.605E -
14\n+ NC = 1.800E + 00 IKR = 5.400E - 02 RC = 1.140E + 01 CJC = 3.980E - 13\n+ MJC = 2.400E - 01 VJC = 9.700E - 01 FC = 5.000E - 01
CJE = 2.400E - 13\n+ MJE = 5.100E- 01 VJE = 8.690E - 01 TR = 4.000E - 09 TF = 10.51E - 12\n+ ITF = 3.500E - 02 XTF = 2.300E + 00 VTF
= 3.500E + 00 PTF = 0.000E + 00\n+ XCJC = 9.000E - 01 CJS = 1.150E - 13 VJS = 7.500E - 01 MJS = 0.000E + 00\n+ RE = 1.848E + 00 RB =
5.007E + 01 RBM = 1.974E + 00 KF = 0.000E + 00\n+ AF = 1.000E + 00)
TEXT 112 640 Left 0 ;Q2's collector is loaded by C2,\nlimiting risetime. Q10 isolates\nQ1's collector, allowing that node\nto charge
much more rapidly.\n \nQ10 doubles as a common-base\namplifier stage, further squaring up the\noutput from Q10's collector.\n \nThe
new output is taken from\nQ10's collector.\n \nJames Arthur, 9-Jul-2008
Edward Rawde
2024-06-14 03:38:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
Eight additional line breaks will need to be removed.
john larkin
2024-06-14 14:47:45 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.

There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.

I do wish people would comment Spice sims properly, with author, date,
and what-the-hell-this-actually-is-supposed-to-do.


I wonder what happened to James. I think all the flaming here drove
him away. James was fun. He always skis in short pants.
Post by Edward Rawde
Version 4
SHEET 1 2848 1304
WIRE -592 528 -752 528
WIRE -240 528 -592 528
WIRE -64 528 -240 528
WIRE 32 528 -64 528
WIRE -64 544 -64 528
WIRE 32 560 32 528
WIRE -592 576 -592 528
WIRE -240 592 -240 528
WIRE -752 624 -752 528
WIRE -64 656 -64 624
WIRE -592 704 -592 656
WIRE -464 704 -592 704
WIRE -384 704 -464 704
WIRE -240 704 -240 672
WIRE -240 704 -320 704
WIRE -128 704 -240 704
WIRE -464 736 -464 704
WIRE -240 736 -240 704
WIRE -752 784 -752 704
WIRE -64 784 -64 752
WIRE 32 784 32 640
WIRE 32 784 -64 784
WIRE -592 832 -592 704
WIRE 32 832 32 784
WIRE -512 880 -528 880
WIRE -464 880 -464 816
WIRE -464 880 -512 880
WIRE -448 880 -464 880
WIRE -384 880 -320 704
WIRE -320 880 -384 704
WIRE -240 880 -240 816
WIRE -240 880 -256 880
WIRE -208 880 -240 880
WIRE -32 880 -208 880
WIRE -208 912 -208 880
WIRE -512 928 -512 880
WIRE -592 1008 -592 928
WIRE -512 1008 -512 992
WIRE -512 1008 -592 1008
WIRE -208 1008 -208 976
WIRE 32 1008 32 928
WIRE 32 1008 -208 1008
WIRE -592 1040 -592 1008
WIRE 32 1040 32 1008
FLAG 32 1040 0
FLAG -592 1040 0
FLAG -752 784 0
SYMBOL RES -608 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMBOL res 16 544 R0
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 2Meg
SYMBOL cap -384 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL cap -256 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL VOLTAGE -752 608 R0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMBOL npn -32 832 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL npn -528 832 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q2
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL res -256 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 4.7Meg
SYMBOL res -480 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 4.701Meg
SYMBOL cap -528 928 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL cap -224 912 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL npn -128 656 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q10
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL RES -256 576 R0
WINDOW 3 30 76 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMBOL RES -48 640 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
TEXT -768 1176 Left 0 !.tran 0 150u 50u startup
TEXT -776 1112 Left 0 ;This example schematic is supplied for informational/educational purposes only.\nJuly 7, 2008 by Bill Sloman
(but blame the Q10 output stage on James Arthur).
TEXT -480 1176 Left 0 !.model NUHFARRY NPN\n+ (IS = 1.840E - 16 XTI = 3.000E + 00 EG = 1.110E + 00 VAF = 7.200E + 01\n+ VAR = 4.500E
+ 00 BF = 1.036E + 02 ISE = 1.686E - 19 NE = 1.400E + 00\n+ IKF = 5.400E - 02 XTB = 0.000E + 00 BR = 1.000E + 01 ISC = 1.605E -
14\n+ NC = 1.800E + 00 IKR = 5.400E - 02 RC = 1.140E + 01 CJC = 3.980E - 13\n+ MJC = 2.400E - 01 VJC = 9.700E - 01 FC = 5.000E - 01
CJE = 2.400E - 13\n+ MJE = 5.100E- 01 VJE = 8.690E - 01 TR = 4.000E - 09 TF = 10.51E - 12\n+ ITF = 3.500E - 02 XTF = 2.300E + 00 VTF
= 3.500E + 00 PTF = 0.000E + 00\n+ XCJC = 9.000E - 01 CJS = 1.150E - 13 VJS = 7.500E - 01 MJS = 0.000E + 00\n+ RE = 1.848E + 00 RB =
5.007E + 01 RBM = 1.974E + 00 KF = 0.000E + 00\n+ AF = 1.000E + 00)
TEXT 112 640 Left 0 ;Q2's collector is loaded by C2,\nlimiting risetime. Q10 isolates\nQ1's collector, allowing that node\nto charge
much more rapidly.\n \nQ10 doubles as a common-base\namplifier stage, further squaring up the\noutput from Q10's collector.\n \nThe
new output is taken from\nQ10's collector.\n \nJames Arthur, 9-Jul-2008
Edward Rawde
2024-06-14 15:08:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
I do wish people would comment Spice sims properly, with author, date,
and what-the-hell-this-actually-is-supposed-to-do.
I wonder what happened to James. I think all the flaming here drove
him away. James was fun. He always skis in short pants.
Post by Edward Rawde
Version 4
SHEET 1 2848 1304
WIRE -592 528 -752 528
WIRE -240 528 -592 528
WIRE -64 528 -240 528
WIRE 32 528 -64 528
WIRE -64 544 -64 528
WIRE 32 560 32 528
WIRE -592 576 -592 528
WIRE -240 592 -240 528
WIRE -752 624 -752 528
WIRE -64 656 -64 624
WIRE -592 704 -592 656
WIRE -464 704 -592 704
WIRE -384 704 -464 704
WIRE -240 704 -240 672
WIRE -240 704 -320 704
WIRE -128 704 -240 704
WIRE -464 736 -464 704
WIRE -240 736 -240 704
WIRE -752 784 -752 704
WIRE -64 784 -64 752
WIRE 32 784 32 640
WIRE 32 784 -64 784
WIRE -592 832 -592 704
WIRE 32 832 32 784
WIRE -512 880 -528 880
WIRE -464 880 -464 816
WIRE -464 880 -512 880
WIRE -448 880 -464 880
WIRE -384 880 -320 704
WIRE -320 880 -384 704
WIRE -240 880 -240 816
WIRE -240 880 -256 880
WIRE -208 880 -240 880
WIRE -32 880 -208 880
WIRE -208 912 -208 880
WIRE -512 928 -512 880
WIRE -592 1008 -592 928
WIRE -512 1008 -512 992
WIRE -512 1008 -592 1008
WIRE -208 1008 -208 976
WIRE 32 1008 32 928
WIRE 32 1008 -208 1008
WIRE -592 1040 -592 1008
WIRE 32 1040 32 1008
FLAG 32 1040 0
FLAG -592 1040 0
FLAG -752 784 0
SYMBOL RES -608 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMBOL res 16 544 R0
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 2Meg
SYMBOL cap -384 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL cap -256 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL VOLTAGE -752 608 R0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMBOL npn -32 832 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL npn -528 832 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q2
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL res -256 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 4.7Meg
SYMBOL res -480 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 4.701Meg
SYMBOL cap -528 928 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL cap -224 912 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL npn -128 656 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q10
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL RES -256 576 R0
WINDOW 3 30 76 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMBOL RES -48 640 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
TEXT -768 1176 Left 0 !.tran 0 150u 50u startup
TEXT -776 1112 Left 0 ;This example schematic is supplied for informational/educational purposes only.\nJuly 7, 2008 by Bill
Sloman
(but blame the Q10 output stage on James Arthur).
TEXT -480 1176 Left 0 !.model NUHFARRY NPN\n+ (IS = 1.840E - 16 XTI = 3.000E + 00 EG = 1.110E + 00 VAF = 7.200E + 01\n+ VAR =
4.500E
+ 00 BF = 1.036E + 02 ISE = 1.686E - 19 NE = 1.400E + 00\n+ IKF = 5.400E - 02 XTB = 0.000E + 00 BR = 1.000E + 01 ISC = 1.605E -
14\n+ NC = 1.800E + 00 IKR = 5.400E - 02 RC = 1.140E + 01 CJC = 3.980E - 13\n+ MJC = 2.400E - 01 VJC = 9.700E - 01 FC = 5.000E -
01
CJE = 2.400E - 13\n+ MJE = 5.100E- 01 VJE = 8.690E - 01 TR = 4.000E - 09 TF = 10.51E - 12\n+ ITF = 3.500E - 02 XTF = 2.300E + 00
VTF
= 3.500E + 00 PTF = 0.000E + 00\n+ XCJC = 9.000E - 01 CJS = 1.150E - 13 VJS = 7.500E - 01 MJS = 0.000E + 00\n+ RE = 1.848E + 00 RB
=
5.007E + 01 RBM = 1.974E + 00 KF = 0.000E + 00\n+ AF = 1.000E + 00)
TEXT 112 640 Left 0 ;Q2's collector is loaded by C2,\nlimiting risetime. Q10 isolates\nQ1's collector, allowing that node\nto
charge
much more rapidly.\n \nQ10 doubles as a common-base\namplifier stage, further squaring up the\noutput from Q10's collector.\n
\nThe
new output is taken from\nQ10's collector.\n \nJames Arthur, 9-Jul-2008
john larkin
2024-06-14 16:03:03 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?

There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.

The duals save space, but aren't well matched so are electrically and
thermally equivalent to buying two separate parts.

I wonder if one could design really fast stuff with the HFA3046.
Package parasitics look nasty. And the big package will force ugly PCB
routing. You can plop a single tiny transistor wherever you want.

The HFA parts are either 5 NPNs or 5 PNPs, which is also awkward.
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
I do wish people would comment Spice sims properly, with author, date,
and what-the-hell-this-actually-is-supposed-to-do.
I wonder what happened to James. I think all the flaming here drove
him away. James was fun. He always skis in short pants.
Edward Rawde
2024-06-14 16:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Post by john larkin
The duals save space, but aren't well matched so are electrically and
thermally equivalent to buying two separate parts.
I wonder if one could design really fast stuff with the HFA3046.
Package parasitics look nasty. And the big package will force ugly PCB
routing. You can plop a single tiny transistor wherever you want.
Yes that is certainly an advantage of single transistors.
Is a suitable single transistor still available for use in new designs?
Post by john larkin
The HFA parts are either 5 NPNs or 5 PNPs, which is also awkward.
3096 is three NPN two PNP
Post by john larkin
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
I do wish people would comment Spice sims properly, with author, date,
and what-the-hell-this-actually-is-supposed-to-do.
I wonder what happened to James. I think all the flaming here drove
him away. James was fun. He always skis in short pants.
john larkin
2024-06-14 16:33:43 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.

Why do people avoid making clean 4-wire connections on schematics?
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
The duals save space, but aren't well matched so are electrically and
thermally equivalent to buying two separate parts.
I wonder if one could design really fast stuff with the HFA3046.
Package parasitics look nasty. And the big package will force ugly PCB
routing. You can plop a single tiny transistor wherever you want.
Yes that is certainly an advantage of single transistors.
Is a suitable single transistor still available for use in new designs?
There are zillions of single transistors around. I like BCX70 as an
npn gumdrop, although I use mosfets more often for simple things.
Edward Rawde
2024-06-14 16:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.
Yes but BC547 sounds almost as ancient as BC107
Are they still in production?
What would work well at a GHz or two or more?
Post by john larkin
Why do people avoid making clean 4-wire connections on schematics?
Some places have rules about that.
I had trouble once, even though I put a very obvious and big blob where the join should have been.
When doing schematics of my own I prefer to avoid a one-blob 4-wire join. Use two blobs.
Post by john larkin
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
The duals save space, but aren't well matched so are electrically and
thermally equivalent to buying two separate parts.
I wonder if one could design really fast stuff with the HFA3046.
Package parasitics look nasty. And the big package will force ugly PCB
routing. You can plop a single tiny transistor wherever you want.
Yes that is certainly an advantage of single transistors.
Is a suitable single transistor still available for use in new designs?
There are zillions of single transistors around. I like BCX70 as an
npn gumdrop, although I use mosfets more often for simple things.
john larkin
2024-06-14 17:11:12 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:44:33 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.
Yes but BC547 sounds almost as ancient as BC107
Are they still in production?
It was just an example of a library part, but Digikey will sell you a
million pieces.
Post by Edward Rawde
What would work well at a GHz or two or more?
For switching? Tuned RF?
Edward Rawde
2024-06-14 19:19:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:44:33 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.
Yes but BC547 sounds almost as ancient as BC107
Are they still in production?
It was just an example of a library part, but Digikey will sell you a
million pieces.
Post by Edward Rawde
What would work well at a GHz or two or more?
For switching? Tuned RF?
I meant a specific npn part and maybe also pnp which is not going obsolete.
john larkin
2024-06-14 19:57:17 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 15:19:08 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:44:33 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.
Yes but BC547 sounds almost as ancient as BC107
Are they still in production?
It was just an example of a library part, but Digikey will sell you a
million pieces.
Post by Edward Rawde
What would work well at a GHz or two or more?
For switching? Tuned RF?
I meant a specific npn part and maybe also pnp which is not going obsolete.
You can search Mouser or Digikey for a multi-sourced part.

Sadly, fast PNPs are mostly going EOL, faster than NPNs. And all the
good things, like GaN and SiC and phemts, are n-types. Nature must
dislike P-things.

Designing with disctetes is educational, but nowadays ICs are the
practical winners. Like wideband MMICs for 10 cents, opamps and
switching regulators for 15.

Gotta move up the abstraction stack.
bitrex
2024-06-14 20:35:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.
Why do people avoid making clean 4-wire connections on schematics?
There's this new trend of breaking the circuit schematic up into little
boxes like this, it's nuts:

<Loading Image...>
john larkin
2024-06-14 23:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by bitrex
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.
Why do people avoid making clean 4-wire connections on schematics?
There's this new trend of breaking the circuit schematic up into little
<https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/hadimg_desrev_ltc4040_6.png>
That's criminal.
bitrex
2024-06-15 04:47:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by bitrex
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.
Why do people avoid making clean 4-wire connections on schematics?
There's this new trend of breaking the circuit schematic up into little
<https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/hadimg_desrev_ltc4040_6.png>
That's criminal.
Combining schematics and documentation in the same document is sort of
like a toothpaste and orange juice smoothie. I like orange juice, and
toothpaste is useful. However...
john larkin
2024-06-15 15:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by bitrex
Post by john larkin
Post by bitrex
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.
Why do people avoid making clean 4-wire connections on schematics?
There's this new trend of breaking the circuit schematic up into little
<https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/hadimg_desrev_ltc4040_6.png>
That's criminal.
Combining schematics and documentation in the same document is sort of
like a toothpaste and orange juice smoothie. I like orange juice, and
toothpaste is useful. However...
We keep a separate design notes folder. It can say a lot more than
could be hacked onto a schematic. I don't like a lot of comments on my
schematics.
Phil Hobbs
2024-06-15 16:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by bitrex
Post by john larkin
Post by bitrex
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by Bill Sloman
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using
Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a
manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a
working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.
Why do people avoid making clean 4-wire connections on schematics?
There's this new trend of breaking the circuit schematic up into little
<https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/hadimg_desrev_ltc4040_6.png>
That's criminal.
Combining schematics and documentation in the same document is sort of
like a toothpaste and orange juice smoothie. I like orange juice, and
toothpaste is useful. However...
We keep a separate design notes folder. It can say a lot more than
could be hacked onto a schematic. I don't like a lot of comments on my
schematics.
I often annotate schematics with things like nominal voltages, dashed
rectangles to indicate circuit groups, and anything unusual that might be
mistaken for an error, such as a BJT used upside-down.

Makes it easier for others to understand.

(We also keep notes, markups from bringup, and so on. )

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Edward Rawde
2024-06-15 04:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by bitrex
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:18:23 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
If it's obsolete or going obsolete then yes it would make no sense to use it.
I would guess that you get to do plenty of work because a manufacturer has suddenly decided to discontinue a part.
Post by john larkin
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
What part would you recommend (single or dual) and does it have a working LTSpice model?
Just pull up some parts from the standard library, some low current
NPNs like BC547 maybe. Look for low capacitances if you care about
that; the HFAs are good in that respect.
Why do people avoid making clean 4-wire connections on schematics?
<https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/hadimg_desrev_ltc4040_6.png>
Reminds me of IEC logic symbols. Another example of nuts.
Gerhard Hoffmann
2024-06-14 16:20:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
I wonder if one could design really fast stuff with the HFA3046.
Package parasitics look nasty. And the big package will force ugly PCB
routing. You can plop a single tiny transistor wherever you want.
The HFA parts are either 5 NPNs or 5 PNPs, which is also awkward.
I did design a 1:1000 dual slope timer stretcher with them featuring
5 ps resolution. The nice thing was that temp effects cancelled.
We tested that with synthesized xtal ovens --> 1pps signal and a
1.0000000??0001 pps that slowly drifted by.

With a space proof ceramic flat pack with even worse parasitics.
And yes, Methinks it was Harris before, bought up by Renesas.

cheers, Gerhard
piglet
2024-06-14 17:59:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Yeah, there is something very wrong with that transistor model.

Here is an emitter coupled multivib that can run fast. Should be
possible somehow to gate it into being a monostable - worst case wrap a
latch around it so it runs just one pulse?


Version 4
SHEET 1 2848 1304
WIRE -512 528 -752 528
WIRE -336 528 -512 528
WIRE -336 576 -336 528
WIRE -752 624 -752 528
WIRE -512 672 -512 528
WIRE -336 688 -336 656
WIRE -224 688 -336 688
WIRE -336 720 -336 688
WIRE -336 720 -448 720
WIRE -336 752 -336 720
WIRE -752 800 -752 704
WIRE -656 800 -752 800
WIRE -224 800 -272 800
WIRE -656 832 -656 800
WIRE -224 848 -224 800
WIRE -752 880 -752 800
WIRE -512 880 -512 768
WIRE -448 880 -512 880
WIRE -336 880 -336 848
WIRE -336 880 -384 880
WIRE -512 944 -512 880
WIRE -336 944 -336 880
WIRE -752 1072 -752 960
WIRE -512 1072 -512 1024
WIRE -512 1072 -752 1072
WIRE -336 1072 -336 1024
WIRE -336 1072 -512 1072
FLAG -224 848 0
FLAG -656 832 0
FLAG -224 688 out
SYMBOL VOLTAGE -752 608 R0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMBOL npn -448 672 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2SC3838K
SYMBOL npn -272 752 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q2
SYMATTR Value 2SC3838K
SYMBOL VOLTAGE -752 864 R0
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMBOL res -352 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 390
SYMBOL cap -384 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 5p
SYMBOL res -528 928 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL res -352 928 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 1k
TEXT -816 1112 Left 0 !.tran 100u
TEXT -120 976 Left 2 ;EPW SED JUN 2024
TEXT -264 1064 Left 2 ;FAST ASTABLE MULTIVIBRATOR
TEXT -120 1032 Left 2 ;EMITTER COUPLED
TEXT -144 848 Left 1 ;TRADITIONALLY SHOWN WITH
TEXT -176 872 Left 1 ;CURRENT SOURCES FOR EMITTERS
TEXT -160 896 Left 1 ;TRY CHANGING R3 R4 FOR 5mA ?
TEXT -152 552 Left 1 ;ALTERNATIVE OUTPUT CAN BE
TEXT -192 576 Left 1 ;TAKEN ACROSS R IN Q1 COLLECTOR


piglet
Edward Rawde
2024-06-14 19:50:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by piglet
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Yeah, there is something very wrong with that transistor model.
Here is an emitter coupled multivib that can run fast. Should be possible somehow to gate it into being a monostable - worst case
wrap a latch around it so it runs just one pulse?
Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks piglet. 2SC3838K typical ft 3.2 GHz and available.
However it's not recommended for new designs if you believe the rohm site.
So I wonder if it has a successor which is available.

NSVF6001SB6T1G looks interesting but no sign of a model other than symbol, footprint and 3D that I can find.
john larkin
2024-06-14 19:59:37 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 15:50:31 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by piglet
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Yeah, there is something very wrong with that transistor model.
Here is an emitter coupled multivib that can run fast. Should be possible somehow to gate it into being a monostable - worst case
wrap a latch around it so it runs just one pulse?
Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks piglet. 2SC3838K typical ft 3.2 GHz and available.
However it's not recommended for new designs if you believe the rohm site.
So I wonder if it has a successor which is available.
NSVF6001SB6T1G looks interesting but no sign of a model other than symbol, footprint and 3D that I can find.
I like BFS17. It's fast, but not so fast as to get cranky. It
generally behaves.
Edward Rawde
2024-06-14 21:55:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 15:50:31 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by piglet
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Yeah, there is something very wrong with that transistor model.
Here is an emitter coupled multivib that can run fast. Should be possible somehow to gate it into being a monostable - worst
case
wrap a latch around it so it runs just one pulse?
Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks piglet. 2SC3838K typical ft 3.2 GHz and available.
However it's not recommended for new designs if you believe the rohm site.
So I wonder if it has a successor which is available.
NSVF6001SB6T1G looks interesting but no sign of a model other than symbol, footprint and 3D that I can find.
I like BFS17. It's fast, but not so fast as to get cranky. It
generally behaves.
But looks like it's going obsolete. 55GN01FA is on the list of alternatives.
john larkin
2024-06-14 23:17:18 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 17:55:10 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 15:50:31 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by piglet
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Yeah, there is something very wrong with that transistor model.
Here is an emitter coupled multivib that can run fast. Should be possible somehow to gate it into being a monostable - worst
case
wrap a latch around it so it runs just one pulse?
Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks piglet. 2SC3838K typical ft 3.2 GHz and available.
However it's not recommended for new designs if you believe the rohm site.
So I wonder if it has a successor which is available.
NSVF6001SB6T1G looks interesting but no sign of a model other than symbol, footprint and 3D that I can find.
I like BFS17. It's fast, but not so fast as to get cranky. It
generally behaves.
But looks like it's going obsolete. 55GN01FA is on the list of alternatives.
Digikey shows two active sources. My inventory program shows MMBTH10
as an alternate.

Mouser has a million BFS17s in stock.

1 GHz is a nice speed for lots of things.
Edward Rawde
2024-06-15 03:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 17:55:10 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 15:50:31 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by piglet
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Yeah, there is something very wrong with that transistor model.
Here is an emitter coupled multivib that can run fast. Should be possible somehow to gate it into being a monostable - worst
case
wrap a latch around it so it runs just one pulse?
Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks piglet. 2SC3838K typical ft 3.2 GHz and available.
However it's not recommended for new designs if you believe the rohm site.
So I wonder if it has a successor which is available.
NSVF6001SB6T1G looks interesting but no sign of a model other than symbol, footprint and 3D that I can find.
I like BFS17. It's fast, but not so fast as to get cranky. It
generally behaves.
But looks like it's going obsolete. 55GN01FA is on the list of alternatives.
Digikey shows two active sources. My inventory program shows MMBTH10
as an alternate.
Mouser has a million BFS17s in stock.
Ok well let's hope the likes of Musk doesn't need them.

The rest of us might need a part which, as far as I can tell, doesn't have any signs of pending obsolescence.

To that end I went hunting for models of the 55GN01FA and managed to find the file 55GN01FA.mps which contains the PS (P Spice?)
parameter set.
After downloading another file (image) to make sure I knew my Yottas from my yoctos I converted that file to a model which is
accepted by LTSpice

Some model parameters were not accepted by LTSpice so they were removed. Namely LE LB LC Cbe Cbc Cce cc and Q1.AREA

The result was as follows.

The point of this is to test the 55GN01FA model. No-one is claiming that this is a monostable or that it is fast.

Version 4
SHEET 1 2848 1316
WIRE -592 512 -752 512
WIRE -240 512 -592 512
WIRE -64 512 -240 512
WIRE 32 512 -64 512
WIRE -64 528 -64 512
WIRE 32 528 32 512
WIRE -592 576 -592 512
WIRE -240 592 -240 512
WIRE -752 624 -752 512
WIRE -64 624 -64 608
WIRE 192 624 -64 624
WIRE 208 624 192 624
WIRE -64 640 -64 624
WIRE -240 688 -240 672
WIRE -128 688 -240 688
WIRE -592 704 -592 656
WIRE -464 704 -592 704
WIRE -384 704 -464 704
WIRE -240 704 -240 688
WIRE -240 704 -320 704
WIRE -464 736 -464 704
WIRE -240 736 -240 704
WIRE -64 768 -64 736
WIRE 32 768 32 608
WIRE 32 768 -64 768
WIRE -752 784 -752 704
WIRE -592 832 -592 704
WIRE 32 832 32 768
WIRE -512 880 -528 880
WIRE -464 880 -464 816
WIRE -464 880 -512 880
WIRE -448 880 -464 880
WIRE -384 880 -320 704
WIRE -320 880 -384 704
WIRE -240 880 -240 816
WIRE -240 880 -256 880
WIRE -208 880 -240 880
WIRE -32 880 -208 880
WIRE -208 912 -208 880
WIRE -512 928 -512 880
WIRE -592 1008 -592 928
WIRE -512 1008 -512 992
WIRE -512 1008 -592 1008
WIRE -208 1008 -208 976
WIRE 32 1008 32 928
WIRE 32 1008 -208 1008
WIRE -592 1040 -592 1008
WIRE 32 1040 32 1008
FLAG 32 1040 0
FLAG -592 1040 0
FLAG -752 784 0
FLAG 192 624 out
SYMBOL RES -608 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMBOL res 16 512 R0
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 2Meg
SYMBOL cap -384 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL cap -256 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL VOLTAGE -752 608 R0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMBOL npn -32 832 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 55GN01FA
SYMBOL npn -528 832 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q2
SYMATTR Value 55GN01FA
SYMBOL res -256 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 4.7Meg
SYMBOL res -480 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 4.701Meg
SYMBOL cap -528 928 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL cap -224 912 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL npn -128 640 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q10
SYMATTR Value 55GN01FA
SYMBOL RES -256 576 R0
WINDOW 3 30 76 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMBOL RES -48 624 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
TEXT -768 1176 Left 0 !.tran 0 150u 50u startup
TEXT -776 1112 Left 0 ;This example schematic is supplied for informational/educational purposes only.\nJuly 7, 2008 by Bill Sloman
(but blame the Q10 output stage on James Arthur).
TEXT -480 1176 Left 0 !.model 55GN01FA NPN\n+ IS = 959.8E-18 BF = 133.0 NF = 985.0E-3 VAF = 9.557\n+ IKF = 760.0E-3 ISE = 450.0E-15
NE = 1.810 BR = 28.89\n+ NR = 1.013 VAR = 1.700 IKR = 5.849E-3 ISC = 1.299E-15\n+ NC = 1.157 RB = 1.000 IRB = 910.0E-3 RBM =
910.0E-3\n+ RE = 510.0E-3 RC = 1.200 XTB = 0.000 EG = 1.110\n+ XTI = 3.000 CJE = 1.050E-12 VJE = 600.0E-3 MJE = 800.0E-3\n+ TF =
18.00E-12 XTF = 1.000 VTF = 1.000 ITF = 50.00E-3\n+ PTF = 0.000 CJC = 800.0E-15 VJC = 110.0E-3 MJC = 115.0E-3\n+ XCJC = 500.0E-3 TR
= 1.000E-9 FC = 500.0E-3
TEXT -32 1128 Left 0 ;Q2's collector is loaded by C2,\nlimiting risetime. Q10 isolates\nQ1's collector, allowing that node\nto
charge much more rapidly.\n \nQ10 doubles as a common-base\namplifier stage, further squaring up the\noutput from Q10's collector.\n
\nThe new output is taken from\nQ10's collector.\n \nJames Arthur, 9-Jul-2008
TEXT 208 696 Left 0 ;This circuit was originally\ndesigned by Bill Sloman and\nJames Arthur in 2008.\n \nThis circuit uses the
55GN01FA\nUsing a model which was derived\nfrom information found online\nby Edward Rawde in June 2024\n \nOh and exactly why do I
have\nto press Shift+Enter to write\nthis? Talk about frustration.\n \nMore importantly, there are\nno four way net crossovers\nwith
a single blob (Q10 base)\n \nFrequency of oscillation appears\nto be 117 KHz. Slightly lower than\nthe BFR92A which is obsolete.
john larkin
2024-06-15 14:49:13 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 23:41:13 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 17:55:10 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 15:50:31 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by piglet
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Yeah, there is something very wrong with that transistor model.
Here is an emitter coupled multivib that can run fast. Should be possible somehow to gate it into being a monostable - worst
case
wrap a latch around it so it runs just one pulse?
Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks piglet. 2SC3838K typical ft 3.2 GHz and available.
However it's not recommended for new designs if you believe the rohm site.
So I wonder if it has a successor which is available.
NSVF6001SB6T1G looks interesting but no sign of a model other than symbol, footprint and 3D that I can find.
I like BFS17. It's fast, but not so fast as to get cranky. It
generally behaves.
But looks like it's going obsolete. 55GN01FA is on the list of alternatives.
Digikey shows two active sources. My inventory program shows MMBTH10
as an alternate.
Mouser has a million BFS17s in stock.
Ok well let's hope the likes of Musk doesn't need them.
The rest of us might need a part which, as far as I can tell, doesn't have any signs of pending obsolescence.
Small rocks maybe.
Post by Edward Rawde
To that end I went hunting for models of the 55GN01FA and managed to find the file 55GN01FA.mps which contains the PS (P Spice?)
parameter set.
After downloading another file (image) to make sure I knew my Yottas from my yoctos I converted that file to a model which is
accepted by LTSpice
Some model parameters were not accepted by LTSpice so they were removed. Namely LE LB LC Cbe Cbc Cce cc and Q1.AREA
The result was as follows.
The point of this is to test the 55GN01FA model. No-one is claiming that this is a monostable or that it is fast.
Version 4
SHEET 1 2848 1316
WIRE -592 512 -752 512
WIRE -240 512 -592 512
WIRE -64 512 -240 512
WIRE 32 512 -64 512
WIRE -64 528 -64 512
WIRE 32 528 32 512
WIRE -592 576 -592 512
WIRE -240 592 -240 512
WIRE -752 624 -752 512
WIRE -64 624 -64 608
WIRE 192 624 -64 624
WIRE 208 624 192 624
WIRE -64 640 -64 624
WIRE -240 688 -240 672
WIRE -128 688 -240 688
WIRE -592 704 -592 656
WIRE -464 704 -592 704
WIRE -384 704 -464 704
WIRE -240 704 -240 688
WIRE -240 704 -320 704
WIRE -464 736 -464 704
WIRE -240 736 -240 704
WIRE -64 768 -64 736
WIRE 32 768 32 608
WIRE 32 768 -64 768
WIRE -752 784 -752 704
WIRE -592 832 -592 704
WIRE 32 832 32 768
WIRE -512 880 -528 880
WIRE -464 880 -464 816
WIRE -464 880 -512 880
WIRE -448 880 -464 880
WIRE -384 880 -320 704
WIRE -320 880 -384 704
WIRE -240 880 -240 816
WIRE -240 880 -256 880
WIRE -208 880 -240 880
WIRE -32 880 -208 880
WIRE -208 912 -208 880
WIRE -512 928 -512 880
WIRE -592 1008 -592 928
WIRE -512 1008 -512 992
WIRE -512 1008 -592 1008
WIRE -208 1008 -208 976
WIRE 32 1008 32 928
WIRE 32 1008 -208 1008
WIRE -592 1040 -592 1008
WIRE 32 1040 32 1008
FLAG 32 1040 0
FLAG -592 1040 0
FLAG -752 784 0
FLAG 192 624 out
SYMBOL RES -608 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMBOL res 16 512 R0
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 2Meg
SYMBOL cap -384 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL cap -256 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL VOLTAGE -752 608 R0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMBOL npn -32 832 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 55GN01FA
SYMBOL npn -528 832 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q2
SYMATTR Value 55GN01FA
SYMBOL res -256 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 4.7Meg
SYMBOL res -480 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 4.701Meg
SYMBOL cap -528 928 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL cap -224 912 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL npn -128 640 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q10
SYMATTR Value 55GN01FA
SYMBOL RES -256 576 R0
WINDOW 3 30 76 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMBOL RES -48 624 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
TEXT -768 1176 Left 0 !.tran 0 150u 50u startup
TEXT -776 1112 Left 0 ;This example schematic is supplied for informational/educational purposes only.\nJuly 7, 2008 by Bill Sloman
(but blame the Q10 output stage on James Arthur).
TEXT -480 1176 Left 0 !.model 55GN01FA NPN\n+ IS = 959.8E-18 BF = 133.0 NF = 985.0E-3 VAF = 9.557\n+ IKF = 760.0E-3 ISE = 450.0E-15
NE = 1.810 BR = 28.89\n+ NR = 1.013 VAR = 1.700 IKR = 5.849E-3 ISC = 1.299E-15\n+ NC = 1.157 RB = 1.000 IRB = 910.0E-3 RBM =
910.0E-3\n+ RE = 510.0E-3 RC = 1.200 XTB = 0.000 EG = 1.110\n+ XTI = 3.000 CJE = 1.050E-12 VJE = 600.0E-3 MJE = 800.0E-3\n+ TF =
18.00E-12 XTF = 1.000 VTF = 1.000 ITF = 50.00E-3\n+ PTF = 0.000 CJC = 800.0E-15 VJC = 110.0E-3 MJC = 115.0E-3\n+ XCJC = 500.0E-3 TR
= 1.000E-9 FC = 500.0E-3
TEXT -32 1128 Left 0 ;Q2's collector is loaded by C2,\nlimiting risetime. Q10 isolates\nQ1's collector, allowing that node\nto
charge much more rapidly.\n \nQ10 doubles as a common-base\namplifier stage, further squaring up the\noutput from Q10's collector.\n
\nThe new output is taken from\nQ10's collector.\n \nJames Arthur, 9-Jul-2008
TEXT 208 696 Left 0 ;This circuit was originally\ndesigned by Bill Sloman and\nJames Arthur in 2008.\n \nThis circuit uses the
55GN01FA\nUsing a model which was derived\nfrom information found online\nby Edward Rawde in June 2024\n \nOh and exactly why do I
have\nto press Shift+Enter to write\nthis? Talk about frustration.\n \nMore importantly, there are\nno four way net crossovers\nwith
a single blob (Q10 base)\n \nFrequency of oscillation appears\nto be 117 KHz. Slightly lower than\nthe BFR92A which is obsolete.
legg
2024-06-15 13:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
The duals save space, but aren't well matched so are electrically and
thermally equivalent to buying two separate parts.
I wonder if one could design really fast stuff with the HFA3046.
Package parasitics look nasty. And the big package will force ugly PCB
routing. You can plop a single tiny transistor wherever you want.
The HFA parts are either 5 NPNs or 5 PNPs, which is also awkward.
The original simulation of the astable multivibrator was intended
to demonstrate reasonable speed at low power.

The model was published by Intersil in 1996 in app note MM3046.

The simulation runs if properly typeset.

RL
Edward Rawde
2024-06-15 16:23:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by legg
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:08:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:25:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
One option John Larjkin doesn't seem to have explored is using Renesas HFA3096 five transistor array as basis for his
mononstable
and level shifter.
It offers three 8GHz NPN parts and two 5.5GHz PNP parts in a single array.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/hfa3046-hfa3096-hfa3127-hfa3128-datasheet?r=494216
I put the NPN model parameters into a circuit designed by yourself.
It's late now but I got as far as Time step too small.
That is neither fast nor a monostable.
Yes ok it's an astable and certainly not intended to be fast.
It was intended only to see if the model worked. Nothing more.
It doesn't work!
Actually it does, see below.
Post by legg
Post by john larkin
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
There's no reason to use many-GHz parts in micropower circuits. One
reason is that the sim breaks.
Most versions of the HFA3046 are obsolete. The only one left at
Digikey costs $12. It would be risky to design around that part.
Wasn't HFA originally a Harris part?
There are lots of dual (non-monolithic) diodes and bipolars and fets
around, but the monolithic arrays are mostly gone.
The duals save space, but aren't well matched so are electrically and
thermally equivalent to buying two separate parts.
I wonder if one could design really fast stuff with the HFA3046.
Package parasitics look nasty. And the big package will force ugly PCB
routing. You can plop a single tiny transistor wherever you want.
The HFA parts are either 5 NPNs or 5 PNPs, which is also awkward.
The original simulation of the astable multivibrator was intended
to demonstrate reasonable speed at low power.
Yes. It's not hard to find the original posts online.
Post by legg
The model was published by Intersil in 1996 in app note MM3046.
The simulation runs if properly typeset.
Thanks for pointing that out. You're absolutely right. Here is the corrected version.
As usual, line breaks will need to be fixed.
Post by legg
RL
Version 4
SHEET 1 2848 1316
WIRE -592 512 -752 512
WIRE -240 512 -592 512
WIRE -64 512 -240 512
WIRE 32 512 -64 512
WIRE -64 528 -64 512
WIRE 32 528 32 512
WIRE -592 560 -592 512
WIRE -240 560 -240 512
WIRE -752 624 -752 512
WIRE -64 624 -64 608
WIRE 192 624 -64 624
WIRE 208 624 192 624
WIRE -64 640 -64 624
WIRE -240 688 -240 640
WIRE -128 688 -240 688
WIRE -592 704 -592 640
WIRE -464 704 -592 704
WIRE -384 704 -464 704
WIRE -240 704 -240 688
WIRE -240 704 -320 704
WIRE -464 736 -464 704
WIRE -240 736 -240 704
WIRE -64 768 -64 736
WIRE 32 768 32 608
WIRE 32 768 -64 768
WIRE -592 832 -592 704
WIRE 32 832 32 768
WIRE -512 880 -528 880
WIRE -464 880 -464 816
WIRE -464 880 -512 880
WIRE -448 880 -464 880
WIRE -384 880 -320 704
WIRE -320 880 -384 704
WIRE -240 880 -240 816
WIRE -240 880 -256 880
WIRE -208 880 -240 880
WIRE -32 880 -208 880
WIRE -208 912 -208 880
WIRE -512 928 -512 880
WIRE -752 1008 -752 704
WIRE -592 1008 -592 928
WIRE -592 1008 -752 1008
WIRE -512 1008 -512 992
WIRE -512 1008 -592 1008
WIRE -208 1008 -208 976
WIRE -208 1008 -512 1008
WIRE 32 1008 32 928
WIRE 32 1008 -208 1008
WIRE -752 1040 -752 1008
FLAG -752 1040 0
FLAG 192 624 out
SYMBOL RES -608 544 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMBOL res 16 512 R0
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 2Meg
SYMBOL cap -384 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL cap -256 864 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 1.5p
SYMBOL VOLTAGE -752 608 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMBOL npn -32 832 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL npn -528 832 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q2
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL res -256 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 4.7Meg
SYMBOL res -480 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 4.701Meg
SYMBOL cap -528 928 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL cap -224 912 R0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 0.68p
SYMBOL npn -128 640 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q10
SYMATTR Value NUHFARRY
SYMBOL RES -256 544 R0
WINDOW 3 30 76 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMBOL RES -48 624 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
TEXT -768 1176 Left 0 !.tran 0 150u 50u startup
TEXT -776 1112 Left 0 ;This example schematic is supplied for informational/educational purposes only.\nJuly 7, 2008 by Bill Sloman
(but blame the Q10 output stage on James Arthur).
TEXT -480 1176 Left 0 !.model NUHFARRY NPN\n+ (IS = 1.840E-16 XTI = 3.000E+00 EG = 1.110E+00 VAF = 7.200E+01\n+ VAR = 4.500E+00 BF =
1.036E+02 ISE = 1.686E-19 NE = 1.400E+00\n+ IKF = 5.400E-02 XTB = 0.000E+00 BR = 1.000E+01 ISC=1.605E-14\n+ NC = 1.800E+00 IKR =
5.400E-02 RC = 1.140E+01 CJC = 3.980E-13\n+ MJC = 2.400E-01 VJC = 9.700E-01 FC = 5.000E-01 CJE = 2.400E-13\n+ MJE = 5.100E-01 VJE =
8.690E-01 TR = 4.000E-09 TF = 10.51E-12\n+ ITF = 3.500E-02 XTF = 2.300E+00 VTF = 3.500E+00 PTF = 0.000E+00\n+ XCJC = 9.000E-01 CJS =
1.150E-13 VJS = 7.500E-01 MJS = 0.000E+00\n+ RE = 1.848E+00 RB = 5.007E+01 RBM = 1.974E+00 KF = 0.000E+00\n+ AF = 1.000E+00)
TEXT -32 1128 Left 0 ;Q2's collector is loaded by C2,\nlimiting risetime. Q10 isolates\nQ1's collector, allowing that node\nto
charge much more rapidly.\n \nQ10 doubles as a common-base\namplifier stage, further squaring up the\noutput from Q10's collector.\n
\nThe new output is taken from\nQ10's collector.\n \nJames Arthur, 9-Jul-2008
TEXT 128 680 Left 0 ;This circuit was originally\ndesigned by Bill Sloman and\nJames Arthur in 2008.\n \nThis version uses the
55GN01FA HFA3046/3096/3127/3128\nTransistor Array SPICE Models taken from\nRenesas Application Note MM3046\nRev.1.00\nFebruary
1994\nCopy/paste by Edward Rawde in June 2024.\nRemove spaces in exponents. E.g. BF = 1.036E+02\n \nFrequency of oscillation is 95
KHz

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