Discussion:
CO2 Funny
(too old to reply)
john larkin
2024-05-21 03:15:32 UTC
Permalink
This is wonderful:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/

"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."

"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Bill Sloman
2024-05-21 05:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Typical John Larkin. The link doesn't work, the UK Daily Telegraph is an
extremely right-wing newspaper, British science journalism sucks, and
the statements amount to claims that if you put your thresholds in the
right places you can claim that potential Trump voters are better
informed than potential Biden voters.

Where those thresholds were put hasn't been specified.

As John Larkin and Cursitor Doom keep on reminding us, right-wing
lunatics have very strange ideas about climate science.

The idea that 44% of Trump voters "were able to correctly identify the
approximate concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere" doesn't
say anything about their capacity to understand what it means.

John Larkin seems to think that it is currently too low and should be
encouraged to get back to the 800ppm our remote ancestors enjoyed during
the Carboniferous (when the sun was delivering less heat to the earth
than it does now).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664543/

John is obviously wrong, though he does seem to be incapable of
realisiing this. His admiration of Donald Trump is similarly irrational.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
John R Walliker
2024-05-21 11:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Typical John Larkin. The link doesn't work, the UK Daily Telegraph is an
extremely right-wing newspaper, British science journalism sucks, and
the statements amount to claims that if you put your thresholds in the
right places you can claim that potential Trump voters are better
informed than potential Biden voters.
Where those thresholds were put hasn't been specified.
As John Larkin and Cursitor Doom keep on reminding us, right-wing
lunatics have very strange ideas about climate science.
The idea that 44% of Trump voters "were able to correctly identify the
approximate concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere" doesn't
say anything about their capacity to understand what it means.
John Larkin seems to think that it is currently too low and should be
encouraged to get back to the 800ppm our remote ancestors enjoyed during
the Carboniferous (when the sun was delivering less heat to the earth
than it does now).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664543/
John is obviously wrong, though he does seem to be incapable of
realisiing this. His admiration of Donald Trump is similarly irrational.
The link works for me, but it uses a lot of words to say very little.

John
chrisq
2024-05-21 13:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.

Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
john larkin
2024-05-21 15:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.

The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.

I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.

So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.

(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-21 17:16:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
john larkin
2024-05-21 17:26:43 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-21 17:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
john larkin
2024-05-21 17:53:16 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
I love designing electronics. It doesn't hurt a bit.

Why do you post to SED if you don't like electronics?
Bill Sloman
2024-05-22 06:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
I love designing electronics. It doesn't hurt a bit.
Why do you post to SED if you don't like electronics?
The problem isn't about his liking electronics, but your capacity to
design electronics, which is rather less well established than you like
to think. Putting together circuits that satisfy your customers isn't
any kind of proof that those circuits were well-designed.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-22 13:36:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
I love designing electronics. It doesn't hurt a bit.
So do I, and have done since 1972.
Post by john larkin
Why do you post to SED if you don't like electronics?
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
jim whitby
2024-05-22 13:58:13 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 May 2024 14:36:00 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard wrote:

<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.

When things don't go your way... start name calling.
--
Jim Whitby


"To vacillate or not to vacillate, that is the question ... or is it?"
----------------------
Mageia release 9 (Official) for x86_64
6.6.28-server-1.mga9
----------------------
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-22 14:14:46 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Are you calling me a liberal?
jim whitby
2024-05-22 14:20:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Are you calling me a liberal?
Nope. Not name calling. Just stating a fact.
--
Jim Whitby


What an author likes to write most is his signature on the back of a
cheque.
-- Brendan Francis
----------------------
Mageia release 9 (Official) for x86_64
6.6.28-server-1.mga9
----------------------
Bill Sloman
2024-05-23 04:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim whitby
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Are you calling me a liberal?
Nope. Not name calling. Just stating a fact.
Not a particularly well-defined fact.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/liberal-meaning-origin-history

American's tend to think it means the opposite of conservative, when in
Australia the right-wing party called itself the liberal party, because
it was for free trade and against protecting Australian manufacturers
from overseas competition. Ironically, it was the left-wing Labor party
that finally dropped protectionism in the 1980s, and unlike Thatcher in
the UK, did it in a way that didn't wreck the economy.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
john larkin
2024-05-22 14:54:30 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.

SED should be, and arguably was, a place where one could post
architectures and circuits and essentially publicly brainstorm, get
ideas from other people. Designing in public [1]. I've learned a lot
that way. And SED needs things to discuss instead of Climate Change
and Palestine. [2]

SED, and I guess usenet, is slowly dying. The nasty noise has driven
away most of the people who are really interested in electronics.

Can anyone recommend a better, more civil, moderated forum to discuss
electronic design?

1. [not the really good ones, obviously]

2. [opinions on such subjects are not testable. Circuits are.]
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-22 17:10:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
SED should be, and arguably was, a place where one could post
architectures and circuits and essentially publicly brainstorm, get
ideas from other people. Designing in public [1]. I've learned a lot
that way. And SED needs things to discuss instead of Climate Change
and Palestine. [2]
SED, and I guess usenet, is slowly dying. The nasty noise has driven
away most of the people who are really interested in electronics.
Can anyone recommend a better, more civil, moderated forum to discuss
electronic design?
1. [not the really good ones, obviously]
2. [opinions on such subjects are not testable. Circuits are.]
***@4ax.com
john larkin
2024-05-22 17:52:40 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.

Please post a schematic or a Spice sim of something that you have
designed. That would be interesting to discuss.

Electronic design requires some native talent and education and
experience, but is in the end gated by emotions. Engineering schools
don't seem to have courses about that, and they should. In fact, the
academic establishment actively avoids addressing this dominant issue.

One classic book was The Psychology of Computer Programming by Gerald
Weinberg. It deals with essentially the same issues, smart people
behaving badly.
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-23 08:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!

You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.

If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.

Your crude and unwarranted attack on bitrex was nasty and typical of
your disgraceful 'holier than thou' attitude.
Post by john larkin
Please post a schematic or a Spice sim of something that you have
designed. That would be interesting to discuss.
Electronic design requires some native talent and education and
experience, but is in the end gated by emotions. Engineering schools
don't seem to have courses about that, and they should. In fact, the
academic establishment actively avoids addressing this dominant issue.
One classic book was The Psychology of Computer Programming by Gerald
Weinberg. It deals with essentially the same issues, smart people
behaving badly.
john larkin
2024-05-23 14:08:05 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Bill Sloman
2024-05-24 08:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
You didn't post anything about active filters. You just posted an
implausible claim to have come up with a minor variation of the
Sallen-Key low pass filter, which we've all done.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-24 10:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.

Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?

If you were genuinely interested in showing your Sallen & Key
variation you could have started a new thread.
john larkin
2024-05-24 14:17:55 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.

Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
Joe Gwinn
2024-05-24 15:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
If ever.

Joe Gwinn
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-24 16:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
If ever.
Joe Gwinn
There you go again making unfounded assumptions. Will you ever stop
your crude insults?
john larkin
2024-05-24 17:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
If ever.
Joe Gwinn
I got my first scope, a Heathkit, when I was in junior high school. It
was I think 5 MHz, all ac-coupled, repetitive sweep, uncalibrated,
pretty primitive.

I later got a summer job in a university physics department and got
to use a Tektronix. I was amazed. That 535 cost as much as a Chevrolet
at the time.
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-24 18:49:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
If ever.
Joe Gwinn
I got my first scope, a Heathkit, when I was in junior high school. It
was I think 5 MHz, all ac-coupled, repetitive sweep, uncalibrated,
pretty primitive.
I later got a summer job in a university physics department and got
to use a Tektronix. I was amazed. That 535 cost as much as a Chevrolet
at the time.
So what? Who cares?
john larkin
2024-05-24 20:20:32 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 May 2024 19:49:13 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
If ever.
Joe Gwinn
I got my first scope, a Heathkit, when I was in junior high school. It
was I think 5 MHz, all ac-coupled, repetitive sweep, uncalibrated,
pretty primitive.
I later got a summer job in a university physics department and got
to use a Tektronix. I was amazed. That 535 cost as much as a Chevrolet
at the time.
So what? Who cares?
What oscilloscopes do you have now?

Maybe you don't care about scopes. It's amazing what you can get from
Amazon now. A nice 100 MHz color scope with probes starting at $99.
Bill Sloman
2024-05-25 05:22:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 19:49:13 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
If ever.
Joe Gwinn
I got my first scope, a Heathkit, when I was in junior high school. It
was I think 5 MHz, all ac-coupled, repetitive sweep, uncalibrated,
pretty primitive.
I later got a summer job in a university physics department and got
to use a Tektronix. I was amazed. That 535 cost as much as a Chevrolet
at the time.
So what? Who cares?
What oscilloscopes do you have now?
Maybe you don't care about scopes. It's amazing what you can get from
Amazon now. A nice 100 MHz color scope with probes starting at $99.
So what? It's what you use it to look at that counts.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Phil Hobbs
2024-05-24 22:31:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
If ever.
Joe Gwinn
I got my first scope, a Heathkit, when I was in junior high school. It
was I think 5 MHz, all ac-coupled, repetitive sweep, uncalibrated,
pretty primitive.
I later got a summer job in a university physics department and got
to use a Tektronix. I was amazed. That 535 cost as much as a Chevrolet
at the time.
I first used one when I was 10 or 11, in my sister’s freshman physics lab.
(Physics 110 at UBC, probably fall 1970.)

I remember that it had delayed sweep , and wasn’t anything too fancy
otherwise, so it was probably a 522 or something like that. (The lab
session was about learning how to use the scope, which was pretty cool.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
john larkin
2024-05-25 00:04:06 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 May 2024 22:31:52 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
Post by john larkin
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
If ever.
Joe Gwinn
I got my first scope, a Heathkit, when I was in junior high school. It
was I think 5 MHz, all ac-coupled, repetitive sweep, uncalibrated,
pretty primitive.
I later got a summer job in a university physics department and got
to use a Tektronix. I was amazed. That 535 cost as much as a Chevrolet
at the time.
I first used one when I was 10 or 11, in my sister’s freshman physics lab.
(Physics 110 at UBC, probably fall 1970.)
I remember that it had delayed sweep , and wasn’t anything too fancy
otherwise, so it was probably a 522 or something like that. (The lab
session was about learning how to use the scope, which was pretty cool.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
There were a couple of plugins that did things that no scope does
today. The diffamp with switchable high and low bandwidth, and the
astounding differential comparators.
Phil Hobbs
2024-05-25 00:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 22:31:52 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
Post by john larkin
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
If ever.
Joe Gwinn
I got my first scope, a Heathkit, when I was in junior high school. It
was I think 5 MHz, all ac-coupled, repetitive sweep, uncalibrated,
pretty primitive.
I later got a summer job in a university physics department and got
to use a Tektronix. I was amazed. That 535 cost as much as a Chevrolet
at the time.
I first used one when I was 10 or 11, in my sister’s freshman physics lab.
(Physics 110 at UBC, probably fall 1970.)
I remember that it had delayed sweep , and wasn’t anything too fancy
otherwise, so it was probably a 522 or something like that. (The lab
session was about learning how to use the scope, which was pretty cool.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
There were a couple of plugins that did things that no scope does
today. The diffamp with switchable high and low bandwidth, and the
astounding differential comparators.
Nuvistors are pretty cool for some jobs, even today.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Mike Monett VE3BTI
2024-05-25 02:05:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Hobbs
Nuvistors are pretty cool for some jobs, even today.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Out of curiosity, like what?
--
MRM
Phil Hobbs
2024-05-25 03:32:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Monett VE3BTI
Post by Phil Hobbs
Nuvistors are pretty cool for some jobs, even today.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Out of curiosity, like what?
They have about a 2-dB noise figure out to 500ish MHz, iirc, and a
combination of low capacitance and high voltage capability that is very
difficult to match with semiconductors.

That makes them very good for the sorts of HV diff amps JL was talking
about, or so I believe. (The last tube circuit I designed was in about
1990, and it didn’t use Nuvistors. )

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Jeroen Belleman
2024-05-25 08:53:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Monett VE3BTI
Post by Phil Hobbs
Nuvistors are pretty cool for some jobs, even today.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Out of curiosity, like what?
I've considered using them in pre-amplifiers for particle
beam position pick-ups in accelerators, because they're rad-
hard. I never actually did it though. It would have been
necessary to shield them from magnetic fields, which is a
pain, and the limited lifetime would have been a nuisance,
anyway.

In the end, I decided to use semiconductor circuitry, kept
at some distance from the beam pipe.

Jeroen Belleman
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-24 16:42:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Precisely. And I said so, but I didn't expect a barrage of abuse from
you and your fan club.
Post by john larkin
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
There you go again making unfounded assumptions. Will you ever stop
your crude insults?
john larkin
2024-05-24 17:43:57 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 May 2024 17:42:41 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Precisely. And I said so, but I didn't expect a barrage of abuse from
you and your fan club.
Post by john larkin
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
There you go again making unfounded assumptions. Will you ever stop
your crude insults?
What kind of scopes do you have now?
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-24 18:24:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 17:42:41 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Precisely. And I said so, but I didn't expect a barrage of abuse from
you and your fan club.
Post by john larkin
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
There you go again making unfounded assumptions. Will you ever stop
your crude insults?
What kind of scopes do you have now?
Kindly answer my question.
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-25 10:51:14 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 May 2024 19:24:23 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 17:42:41 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Precisely. And I said so, but I didn't expect a barrage of abuse from
you and your fan club.
Post by john larkin
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
There you go again making unfounded assumptions. Will you ever stop
your crude insults?
What kind of scopes do you have now?
Kindly answer my question.
That's it. I'm done now.

Your arrogance, hypocrisy, general nastiness and a propensity to use
red herrings makes any attempt at rational discussion with you
exasperating and futile.

I pity anybody who works for you. I bet the poor sods are
micro-managed to the hilt. I can imagining them sniggering behind your
back at what pillock you are.

I am finished with wasting any more time on pointless exchanges with
you. I have much more important things I need to attend to.

Paint doesn't watch itself dry. Byeee!
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-24 18:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 17:42:41 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Precisely. And I said so, but I didn't expect a barrage of abuse from
you and your fan club.
Post by john larkin
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
There you go again making unfounded assumptions. Will you ever stop
your crude insults?
What kind of scopes do you have now?
Why do you ask?
Bill Sloman
2024-05-25 05:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Precisely. And I said so, but I didn't expect a barrage of abuse from
you and your fan club.
Post by john larkin
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
There you go again making unfounded assumptions. Will you ever stop
your crude insults?
Probably not. He's been at it for twenty years now. He seems to have
gotten a bit more formulaic in recent years, but the basic idea that
true circuit design consists of slinging stuff together and seeing if it
works (without paying much attention to data sheets) has been pretty
consistent. He resents suggestions that imply that he should learn about
more about the components he is abusing, presumably because he's well
aware that he can't.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2024-05-25 05:19:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Fri, 24 May 2024 11:29:37 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Thu, 23 May 2024 09:33:11 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question
honestly but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult
presumably because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first
with your stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club
rounded on me for having the audacity to call out one of the worst
offenders for insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your
own book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Like active filters?
Do try not to be so stupid. As you well know I was referring to the
subject of the current thread being off-topic.
Of course active filters are a suitable topic for discussion in SED,
but when you include a stupid question in your own off topic thread
you should not throw around insults when you get an answer you don't
expect. Were you hoping for a "yes please" type of response?
Obviously. But nobody is interested.
Everybody knows that you won't actually post a circuit diagram or a .asc
file, and most of us are aware that you won't have invented anything
that it actually new to anyboyd but you.
Post by john larkin
Are you here to discuss electronics, or to cackle and insult? Lately
SED is full of clucking old hens who probably haven't owned an
oscilloscope in decades.
The only oscilloscope I've got plugs into my computer, and I haven't
used to for ages, but I still know what I'm talking about. You seem to
own all sorts of sexy hardware, but you don't do anything interesting
with it.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
john larkin
2024-05-23 14:55:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Please post a schematic or a Spice sim of something that you have
designed. That would be interesting to discuss.
Cursitor Doom
2024-05-26 17:55:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question honestly
but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult presumably
because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first with your
stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club rounded on me
for having the audacity to call out one of the worst offenders for
insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your own
book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Your crude and unwarranted attack on bitrex was nasty and typical of
your disgraceful 'holier than thou' attitude.
So says just another Australian troll. Australia's biggest export: the
gobshite troll.
john larkin
2024-05-26 21:26:48 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:55:17 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
Post by Cursitor Doom
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question honestly
but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult presumably
because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first with your
stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club rounded on me
for having the audacity to call out one of the worst offenders for
insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your own
book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Your crude and unwarranted attack on bitrex was nasty and typical of
your disgraceful 'holier than thou' attitude.
So says just another Australian troll. Australia's biggest export: the
gobshite troll.
And Fosters Beer. Apparently they brew it for export only and won't
drink it themselves.
Bill Sloman
2024-05-27 04:22:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:55:17 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
<snip>
Post by john larkin
And Fosters Beer. Apparently they brew it for export only and won't
drink it themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster%27s_Lager

Some people here do drink it, but not all that many.

The brand is now owned by

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asahi_Breweries

which is Japanese, so the distribution isn't controlled by Australia.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-27 16:47:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:55:17 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
Post by Cursitor Doom
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question honestly
but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult presumably
because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first with your
stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club rounded on me
for having the audacity to call out one of the worst offenders for
insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your own
book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Your crude and unwarranted attack on bitrex was nasty and typical of
your disgraceful 'holier than thou' attitude.
So says just another Australian troll. Australia's biggest export: the
gobshite troll.
And Fosters Beer. Apparently they brew it for export only and won't
drink it themselves.
Just like American "beer", Fosters is dog piss.
john larkin
2024-05-27 18:02:27 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 May 2024 17:47:25 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:55:17 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
Post by Cursitor Doom
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question honestly
but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult presumably
because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first with your
stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club rounded on me
for having the audacity to call out one of the worst offenders for
insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your own
book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Your crude and unwarranted attack on bitrex was nasty and typical of
your disgraceful 'holier than thou' attitude.
So says just another Australian troll. Australia's biggest export: the
gobshite troll.
And Fosters Beer. Apparently they brew it for export only and won't
drink it themselves.
Just like American "beer", Fosters is dog piss.
I never understood why anyone would drink a Budweiser product. Modelo
is the #1 beer in the US now, and it's pretty good.

The revived PBR is drinkable on draft, as are the beers from many
microbreweries. But there is a war among many brewewies to out-hop one
another; that may have peaked.

We get lots of imports at the local BevMo.

We boycott Sapporo, because they bought the Anchor Steam brewery and
shut it down.

One joint near here has 44 beers, always including one around $70 a
glass.
Bill Sloman
2024-05-27 04:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cursitor Doom
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Cursitor Doom
So says just another Australian troll. Australia's biggest export: the
gobshite troll.
"Gobshite" isn't part of the Australian vernacular. If we can't name
them, they clearly aren't a deliberate export.

Cursitor Doom is from the UK. He doesn't live there any more, but he
clearly wasn't sold to anybody who wanted him so he wasn't an export.

Cursitor Doom is a troll, and he doesn't like being abused for it -
which is a necessary public service contributed by a number of
public-spirited citizens who post here, some of them from Australia,
which has had a lot of exposure to conceited twits from the UK, so
quite a few of it's citizens have a had lot of practice in deflating
their pretensions.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-27 16:59:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:55:17 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
Post by Cursitor Doom
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking!
You started this off topic thread in which you posed a question
completely unrelated to the subject. I answered your question honestly
but your narcissism prompted you to take it as an insult presumably
because I hadn't massaged your ego. You leapt in feet first with your
stock insult and when I retaliated you and your fan club rounded on me
for having the audacity to call out one of the worst offenders for
insults.
If you want to see SED cleaned up you should take a leaf out of your own
book and stop indulging in off topic rubbish.
Your crude and unwarranted attack on bitrex was nasty and typical of
your disgraceful 'holier than thou' attitude.
So says just another Australian troll.
Wrong as usual, stupid.
Australia's biggest export: the
Post by Cursitor Doom
gobshite troll.
Bill Sloman
2024-05-23 11:41:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
John Larkin doesn't seem to 'design" anything. He throws together the
stuff he sells like every other tinkerer.
Post by john larkin
Please post a schematic or a Spice sim of something that you have
designed. That would be interesting to discuss.
And rip off. John won't discuss anything - he doesn't seem to know how.
Post by john larkin
Electronic design requires some native talent and education and
experience, but is in the end gated by emotions.
"Gated"? If you are depressed you won't design anything, but there are
lots of different motivations for slinging stuff together and getting it
right. If production ends up with something they can put together and
the sales team ends up with something they can sell, the business of
motivating the designers can be left to them.

Since the salesmen mostly want what they have already got - but smaller,
faster and cheaper, they aren't really to be trusted with the job.

One of my bigger and more interesting projects got messed up because the
boss, who also sold the product, was intent on claiming a 10psec timing
granularity for the timing system in a machine whose narrowest pulse was
500psec wide (we had hopes of getting that down to 100psec, but 10psec
was a decade or so away). 100K ECL limited us to no better than 20psec,
and ECLinPS was not around at that stage, so we bought into Gigabit
Logic's GaAs parts - the project crashed shortly before Gigabit realised
that they were never going to the yield high enough to make money.

It wasn't the only problem his unrealistic ambitions created.
Post by john larkin
Engineering schools don't seem to have courses about that, and they should. In fact, the
academic establishment actively avoids addressing this dominant issue.
They'd have to import talent from the pyschology department to attend to
that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Morton_(cognitive_scientist)

wrote a neat paper on human factors in design, but he an I could never
work out which one was the one I'd read and liked.
Post by john larkin
One classic book was The Psychology of Computer Programming by Gerald
Weinberg. It deals with essentially the same issues, smart people
behaving badly.
That may have been what John Larkin saw in it.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Edward Rawde
2024-05-25 18:38:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
John Larkin doesn't seem to 'design" anything. He throws together the stuff he sells like every other tinkerer.
Why does that matter to you so much?

I have two books in front of me.
One is "Introduction to Solid State Physics, C. Kittel"
The other is "FET Circuits. Rufus P Turner"

If I open the physics book at a random page I find a contour integral.
I wasn't bad at math and can handle contour integrals but it is also true that I grew up in a very practical electronics environment
where getting things working was way more important than understanding every little detail of the theory of how they worked.

If I open the FET book at a random page I find a circuit which may be usable as the basis of something I want to "design".
This isn't true of the physics book but that doesn't mean I don't find it to be interesting or useful knowledge.

Human psychology obviously plays a big part in electronics design as it does in electronics designers.

It does seem to be a trait of many (not all) electronics designers that if another designer isn't doing it the way they would do it
then they must be doing it wrong.

Would you be kind enough to give your opinion of John Larkin once per month instead of twice per day?




...
Bill Sloman
2024-05-26 05:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
John Larkin doesn't seem to 'design" anything. He throws together the stuff he sells like every other tinkerer.
Why does that matter to you so much?
I have two books in front of me.
One is "Introduction to Solid State Physics, C. Kittel"
The other is "FET Circuits. Rufus P Turner"
If I open the physics book at a random page I find a contour integral.
I wasn't bad at math and can handle contour integrals but it is also true that I grew up in a very practical electronics environment
where getting things working was way more important than understanding every little detail of the theory of how they worked.
I got into electronics while a I was doing a Ph.D. physical chemistry.
Win Hill started a Ph.D. in chemical physics, but had better advisors.

Getting things working is always important, but understanding the detail
of what's going on can be vital to getting them to work well.

When I was working at Cambridge Instruments (1982-1991) it was mostly on
projects,but between projects I'd get stuck with "mods" which was
looking at what production was complaining about and reworking the
circuit that they were complaining about to make it better behaved. A
lot of that was correcting the original designer's minor mistakes.

One of them wasn't all that minor - somebody has used a 741 in a place
where it's pop-corn noise got amplified to the point where the heaters
in our GaAs single crystal puller were effectively pulse width modulated
with a cycle time of about a minute or so. Replacing the 741 with a
marginally less ancient part with a pop-corn noise spec meant that the
heaters ran continuously at something like 30% of full capacity.
It made the operating environment a lot more peaceful and may have
produced more-nearly-strain-free single crystal GaAs.
Post by Edward Rawde
If I open the FET book at a random page I find a circuit which may be usable as the basis of something I want to "design".
This isn't true of the physics book but that doesn't mean I don't find it to be interesting or useful knowledge.
Human psychology obviously plays a big part in electronics design as it does in electronics designers.
It does seem to be a trait of many (not all) electronics designers that if another designer isn't doing it the way they would do it
then they must be doing it wrong.
It usually takes a while to work out why they did it that way, and it's
pretty much essential to spend that time before you start fiddling with
the circuit. That wasn't true of the guy who'd put in the 741. He was
very much in the John Larkin "if it sort of works, ship it" camp.
Management liked him because he was quick. Production was less
enthusiastic.
Post by Edward Rawde
Would you be kind enough to give your opinion of John Larkin once per month instead of twice per day?
When he starts claiming to do electronic design once a month rather than
twice a day.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Edward Rawde
2024-05-26 18:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
...
Post by Edward Rawde
John Larkin doesn't seem to 'design" anything. He throws together the stuff he sells like every other tinkerer.
Why does that matter to you so much?
I have two books in front of me.
One is "Introduction to Solid State Physics, C. Kittel"
The other is "FET Circuits. Rufus P Turner"
If I open the physics book at a random page I find a contour integral.
I wasn't bad at math and can handle contour integrals but it is also true that I grew up in a very practical electronics
environment
where getting things working was way more important than understanding every little detail of the theory of how they worked.
I got into electronics while a I was doing a Ph.D. physical chemistry. Win Hill started a Ph.D. in chemical physics, but had better
advisors.
Getting things working is always important, but understanding the detail of what's going on can be vital to getting them to work
well.
So both of these are needed if you want the best design.
When I was working at Cambridge Instruments (1982-1991) it was mostly on projects,but between projects I'd get stuck with "mods"
which was looking at what production was complaining about and reworking the circuit that they were complaining about to make it
better behaved. A lot of that was correcting the original designer's minor mistakes.
One of them wasn't all that minor - somebody has used a 741 in a place where it's pop-corn noise got amplified to the point where
the heaters in our GaAs single crystal puller were effectively pulse width modulated with a cycle time of about a minute or so.
Replacing the 741 with a marginally less ancient part with a pop-corn noise spec meant that the heaters ran continuously at
something like 30% of full capacity.
It made the operating environment a lot more peaceful and may have produced more-nearly-strain-free single crystal GaAs.
I could write a book about what I encountered when I left academic study and started designing electronic
products for production. I had the advantage (or disadvantage?) of many previous years of practical
experience of circuits designed by others and some designed by myself but not for volume production.

Before starting work I did a course in Power Electronics.
The lecturer used many thyristors but the gate was never connected to anything.
I wanted to ask whether you could just connect the gate to a logic output but never did.

After starting work it was clear to me that most of the issues I encountered arose because they weren't important to academia
so none of the textbooks covered them.

I encountered boards with none of the power pins on the chips connected to anything.

I also remember bringing a book into work and one of the experienced designers was amazed that such a book existed.

Most of the electronic circuit texts available at the time which were used in academia where excessively detailed
and about as useful as the average Wikipedia page.

This book was different, it actually covered subjects such as why you shouldn't expect the output of an op amp to go above its +
supply rail
and why a circuit wasn't likely to do much if the op amp was part of the circuit which produced its own supply rail.

I'll leave you to guess which book that was. Shame that the current edition is the last.
If I open the FET book at a random page I find a circuit which may be usable as the basis of something I want to "design".
This isn't true of the physics book but that doesn't mean I don't find it to be interesting or useful knowledge.
Human psychology obviously plays a big part in electronics design as it does in electronics designers.
It does seem to be a trait of many (not all) electronics designers that if another designer isn't doing it the way they would do
it
then they must be doing it wrong.
It usually takes a while to work out why they did it that way, and it's pretty much essential to spend that time before you start
fiddling with the circuit. That wasn't true of the guy who'd put in the 741. He was very much in the John Larkin "if it sort of
works, ship it" camp.
Which of John Larkin's products have you purchased and tested and what improvement
do you think should have been made before it was shipped?
Management liked him because he was quick. Production was less enthusiastic.
Management likely expected that problems would be found which would have to be dealt with at a later time.
Would you be kind enough to give your opinion of John Larkin once per month instead of twice per day?
When he starts claiming to do electronic design once a month rather than twice a day.
I still don't see why it matters so much when the two of you are in different countries and, correct me if I'm wrong,
you've never used or tested any of JL's products.

You can't deny that JL has a successful business.
Whether his business would be more successful if he adopted different design techniques is not something I wish to go into
because it simply doesn't matter to me.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
john larkin
2024-05-26 21:31:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 May 2024 14:22:28 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
...
Post by Edward Rawde
John Larkin doesn't seem to 'design" anything. He throws together the stuff he sells like every other tinkerer.
Why does that matter to you so much?
I have two books in front of me.
One is "Introduction to Solid State Physics, C. Kittel"
The other is "FET Circuits. Rufus P Turner"
If I open the physics book at a random page I find a contour integral.
I wasn't bad at math and can handle contour integrals but it is also true that I grew up in a very practical electronics
environment
where getting things working was way more important than understanding every little detail of the theory of how they worked.
I got into electronics while a I was doing a Ph.D. physical chemistry. Win Hill started a Ph.D. in chemical physics, but had better
advisors.
Getting things working is always important, but understanding the detail of what's going on can be vital to getting them to work
well.
So both of these are needed if you want the best design.
Not really. Understanding at some level can help a lot, but it's not
necessary. Besides, we don't actually understand what we're doing, all
the way down to the quantum mechanics.
Jeroen Belleman
2024-05-26 22:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Sun, 26 May 2024 14:22:28 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
...
Post by Edward Rawde
John Larkin doesn't seem to 'design" anything. He throws together the stuff he sells like every other tinkerer.
Why does that matter to you so much?
I have two books in front of me.
One is "Introduction to Solid State Physics, C. Kittel"
The other is "FET Circuits. Rufus P Turner"
If I open the physics book at a random page I find a contour integral.
I wasn't bad at math and can handle contour integrals but it is also true that I grew up in a very practical electronics
environment
where getting things working was way more important than understanding every little detail of the theory of how they worked.
I got into electronics while a I was doing a Ph.D. physical chemistry. Win Hill started a Ph.D. in chemical physics, but had better
advisors.
Getting things working is always important, but understanding the detail of what's going on can be vital to getting them to work
well.
So both of these are needed if you want the best design.
Not really. Understanding at some level can help a lot, but it's not
necessary. Besides, we don't actually understand what we're doing, all
the way down to the quantum mechanics.
You have to choose the abstraction level appropriate for the task
at hand. I you choose wrong, it will only bog you down. For most
discrete designs, you don't need a very detailed understanding of
semiconductor physics, but you have to know the device
characteristics. For opamp or logic designs, you don't need the
characteristics of the devices that compose an opamp or a logic
gate. For FPGA logic design, you hardly need to understand logic
gates anymore. To program a computer, you don't need to understand
CPU architecture. And on it goes.

Jeroen Belleman

(Give a researcher the task of banging in a nail. First he'll study
hammers. Before you know it, he'll be studying advanced metallurgy.)
Bill Sloman
2024-05-27 05:05:14 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Edward Rawde
It usually takes a while to work out why they did it that way, and it's pretty much essential to spend that time before you start
fiddling with the circuit. That wasn't true of the guy who'd put in the 741. He was very much in the John Larkin "if it sort of
works, ship it" camp.
Which of John Larkin's products have you purchased and tested and what improvement
do you think should have been made before it was shipped?
Absolutely none of them. The timing gear he sells to the American
National Ignition Facility is based on a 1978 Hewlett Packard scheme,
written up in their journal, and it depends on starting up a 50MHz
free-running oscillator in a very predictable way.

Faster oscillators have less jitter, and while synchronising to a
continuously running faster oscillator twice may introduce extra jitter,
the net jitter on the time delay can be quite a bit less.

I had much the same problem in 1988 and went for a free-running 800MHz
oscillator.

It turns out that the first version of John's 50MHz oscillator had a
nasty - if small - sub-harmonic oscillation and he's finally found a
better version.
Post by Edward Rawde
Management liked him because he was quick. Production was less enthusiastic.
Management likely expected that problems would be found which would have to be dealt with at a later time.
I got to cleanup his mess ten years later, and only because some of the
parts he had used had gone obsolete.

It didn't mention another error - his 741 had to drive a few metres of
shielded pair, which was a big enough capacitative load to make it
oscillate, to which his solution had been to hang on a 100uF
electrolytic, so the oscillation was at too low an amplitude to be
visible. There's a standard solution for that - National Semiconductor
Applications note AN-4 Fig.14. which he should have known about.

I'd certainly had to deal with it more than ten years earlier
Post by Edward Rawde
Would you be kind enough to give your opinion of John Larkin once per month instead of twice per day?
When he starts claiming to do electronic design once a month rather than twice a day.
I still don't see why it matters so much when the two of you are in different countries and, correct me if I'm wrong,
you've never used or tested any of JL's products.
One of his standard insults is to claim that his critics don't design stuff.
Post by Edward Rawde
You can't deny that JL has a successful business.
Whether his business would be more successful if he adopted different design techniques is not something I wish to go into
because it simply doesn't matter to me.
He's the electronic equivalent of a vanity publisher. He give people who
can't design their own electronics, bespoke electronic solutions to the
problems that they think they have. I did a bit of that at Nijmegen
University in the Netherlands, and most of what I found myself doing was
getting people to recognise that they had a standard problem for which
they could buy a standard solution off the shelf.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
john larkin
2024-05-27 11:04:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Edward Rawde
It usually takes a while to work out why they did it that way, and it's pretty much essential to spend that time before you start
fiddling with the circuit. That wasn't true of the guy who'd put in the 741. He was very much in the John Larkin "if it sort of
works, ship it" camp.
Which of John Larkin's products have you purchased and tested and what improvement
do you think should have been made before it was shipped?
Absolutely none of them. The timing gear he sells to the American
National Ignition Facility is based on a 1978 Hewlett Packard scheme,
written up in their journal, and it depends on starting up a 50MHz
free-running oscillator in a very predictable way.
Totally wrong, as usual. The NIF timing system is synchronous at
155.52 MHz across over 200 timing modules, about 2000 "clients"
triggered every shot.

https://highlandtechnology.com/Product/V880

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/74f60yne8cdlr53n1x1la/TUAP069.pdf?rlkey=4lp86ca0ztfuh055qyxtok9lm&dl=0
Post by jim whitby
Faster oscillators have less jitter, and while synchronising to a
continuously running faster oscillator twice may introduce extra jitter,
the net jitter on the time delay can be quite a bit less.
We deliver 1 ps timing resolution and a few ps RMS jitter to clients
across a facility the size of a football stadium.

We recently delivered our third system to NIF, the second generation
beamline amplitude modulators. This helped them achieve over-unity
fusion yield.
Post by jim whitby
I had much the same problem in 1988 and went for a free-running 800MHz
oscillator.
It turns out that the first version of John's 50MHz oscillator had a
nasty - if small - sub-harmonic oscillation and he's finally found a
better version.
It did not.
Bill Sloman
2024-05-27 15:05:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Edward Rawde
It usually takes a while to work out why they did it that way, and it's pretty much essential to spend that time before you start
fiddling with the circuit. That wasn't true of the guy who'd put in the 741. He was very much in the John Larkin "if it sort of
works, ship it" camp.
Which of John Larkin's products have you purchased and tested and what improvement
do you think should have been made before it was shipped?
Absolutely none of them. The timing gear he sells to the American
National Ignition Facility is based on a 1978 Hewlett Packard scheme,
written up in their journal, and it depends on starting up a 50MHz
free-running oscillator in a very predictable way.
Totally wrong, as usual. The NIF timing system is synchronous at
155.52 MHz across over 200 timing modules, about 2000 "clients"
triggered every shot.
https://highlandtechnology.com/Product/V880
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/74f60yne8cdlr53n1x1la/TUAP069.pdf?rlkey=4lp86ca0ztfuh055qyxtok9lm&dl=0
That write-up doesn't mention the 1978 Hewlett-Packard Journal article
which you have talked about here.

It's a full bottle on the the 155.52 MHz timing scheme which is spread a
across the whole site, which provides the start signal for your delay
generators, but the individual delays generated don't depend on it at
all (although it presumably provides the reference timing for any
auto-calibration that you do)
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
Faster oscillators have less jitter, and while synchronising to a
continuously running faster oscillator twice may introduce extra jitter,
the net jitter on the time delay can be quite a bit less.
We deliver 1 ps timing resolution and a few ps RMS jitter to clients
across a facility the size of a football stadium.
Perhaps, but you clearly don't understand what you are actually doing,
otherwise you wouldn't be claiming that I was totally wrong, or invoking
their optically distributed master clock as if were part of your system.
Post by john larkin
We recently delivered our third system to NIF, the second generation
beamline amplitude modulators. This helped them achieve over-unity
fusion yield.
Not as much as a better designed system would have.
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
I had much the same problem in 1988 and went for a free-running 800MHz
oscillator.
It turns out that the first version of John's 50MHz oscillator had a
nasty - if small - sub-harmonic oscillation and he's finally found a
better version.
It did not.
You recently told Phil Hobbs here that something like it did .. in the
"fast discrete PHEMT one-shot thread".

"Tell me about that. My triggered 50 MHz colpitts oscillator squegged
at around 4 GHz. Tons of jitter.

I designed a new osc using a BUF602 and it's great."

Finding that prompted me to find his Murata 5GHz ferrite bead post,
which I'd been kicking myself for not writing into my day-book.

I'm sure that you are going to tell us that this referred to a
completely different, much more recent project, but I suspect that it
was recycling the old idea and better test gear showed up an old problem.
--
Bil Sloman, Sydney
john larkin
2024-05-27 15:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Edward Rawde
It usually takes a while to work out why they did it that way, and it's pretty much essential to spend that time before you start
fiddling with the circuit. That wasn't true of the guy who'd put in the 741. He was very much in the John Larkin "if it sort of
works, ship it" camp.
Which of John Larkin's products have you purchased and tested and what improvement
do you think should have been made before it was shipped?
Absolutely none of them. The timing gear he sells to the American
National Ignition Facility is based on a 1978 Hewlett Packard scheme,
written up in their journal, and it depends on starting up a 50MHz
free-running oscillator in a very predictable way.
Totally wrong, as usual. The NIF timing system is synchronous at
155.52 MHz across over 200 timing modules, about 2000 "clients"
triggered every shot.
https://highlandtechnology.com/Product/V880
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/74f60yne8cdlr53n1x1la/TUAP069.pdf?rlkey=4lp86ca0ztfuh055qyxtok9lm&dl=0
That write-up doesn't mention the 1978 Hewlett-Packard Journal article
which you have talked about here.
It's a full bottle on the the 155.52 MHz timing scheme which is spread a
across the whole site, which provides the start signal for your delay
generators, but the individual delays generated don't depend on it at
all (although it presumably provides the reference timing for any
auto-calibration that you do)
You know nothing about this and are, as usual, all wrong. ALL the
module timing is based on the 155.52 MHz clock, which is generated by
a local PLL that is locked to the OC3 optical data stream.
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
Faster oscillators have less jitter, and while synchronising to a
continuously running faster oscillator twice may introduce extra jitter,
the net jitter on the time delay can be quite a bit less.
We deliver 1 ps timing resolution and a few ps RMS jitter to clients
across a facility the size of a football stadium.
Perhaps, but you clearly don't understand what you are actually doing,
otherwise you wouldn't be claiming that I was totally wrong, or invoking
their optically distributed master clock as if were part of your system.
Can you see the APC connector and the fiber?

https://highlandtechnology.com/Product/V880

The VCXO of the PLL is the shiny cube. It's mounted on tiny
custom-made springs to isolate it from shocks from un-mating the SMB
connectors.

Here's the PLL

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cobd3t4eorcsgrt/22S880D.pdf?raw=1

It uses a Dflop bang-bang ECL phase detector. I sure you don't
approve.

We originally uses a Vectron OC3 optical receiver module. It used a
SAW filter to recover the clock and had very low time shift vs optical
power. But they quit making it as OC3 fell out of fashion so I had to
design a drop-in replacement. I'll use an SFP module if we do this
again.


Do I have to give the awards back?

Loading Image...
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
We recently delivered our third system to NIF, the second generation
beamline amplitude modulators. This helped them achieve over-unity
fusion yield.
Not as much as a better designed system would have.
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
I had much the same problem in 1988 and went for a free-running 800MHz
oscillator.
It turns out that the first version of John's 50MHz oscillator had a
nasty - if small - sub-harmonic oscillation and he's finally found a
better version.
It did not.
You recently told Phil Hobbs here that something like it did .. in the
"fast discrete PHEMT one-shot thread".
Different project, a GHz squegg and not a sub-harmonic oscillation.
The new oscillator fixes that and has superb jitter vs time open-loop,
so the diversion was well worth it. It's so good that I might do a
cheaper DDG based on the open-loop triggered oscillator.
Post by Bill Sloman
"Tell me about that. My triggered 50 MHz colpitts oscillator squegged
at around 4 GHz. Tons of jitter.
I designed a new osc using a BUF602 and it's great."
Finding that prompted me to find his Murata 5GHz ferrite bead post,
which I'd been kicking myself for not writing into my day-book.
I'm sure that you are going to tell us that this referred to a
completely different, much more recent project, but I suspect that it
was recycling the old idea and better test gear showed up an old problem.
Wrong. It's sad that you are driven by vanity and hatred and not
honest interest in electronics.
Bill Sloman
2024-05-28 08:50:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Edward Rawde
It usually takes a while to work out why they did it that way, and it's pretty much essential to spend that time before you start
fiddling with the circuit. That wasn't true of the guy who'd put in the 741. He was very much in the John Larkin "if it sort of
works, ship it" camp.
Which of John Larkin's products have you purchased and tested and what improvement
do you think should have been made before it was shipped?
Absolutely none of them. The timing gear he sells to the American
National Ignition Facility is based on a 1978 Hewlett Packard scheme,
written up in their journal, and it depends on starting up a 50MHz
free-running oscillator in a very predictable way.
Totally wrong, as usual. The NIF timing system is synchronous at
155.52 MHz across over 200 timing modules, about 2000 "clients"
triggered every shot.
https://highlandtechnology.com/Product/V880
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/74f60yne8cdlr53n1x1la/TUAP069.pdf?rlkey=4lp86ca0ztfuh055qyxtok9lm&dl=0
That write-up doesn't mention the 1978 Hewlett-Packard Journal article
which you have talked about here.
It's a full bottle on the the 155.52 MHz timing scheme which is spread a
across the whole site, which provides the start signal for your delay
generators, but the individual delays generated don't depend on it at
all (although it presumably provides the reference timing for any
auto-calibration that you do)
You know nothing about this and are, as usual, all wrong. ALL the
module timing is based on the 155.52 MHz clock, which is generated by
a local PLL that is locked to the OC3 optical data stream.
All the module timing may depend on the 155.52MHz master clock, but the
connection between edges on that clock and the signal the module puts
out to fire the laser is decidedly indirect.

If you divided up the gaps between the 155.52MHz edges to generate your
1psec accurate laser driving pulses you'd be able to claim a direct
connection.

155.52MHz is a bit slow for a master clock in such a system.
Post by john larkin
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
Faster oscillators have less jitter, and while synchronising to a
continuously running faster oscillator twice may introduce extra jitter,
the net jitter on the time delay can be quite a bit less.
We deliver 1 ps timing resolution and a few ps RMS jitter to clients
across a facility the size of a football stadium.
Perhaps, but you clearly don't understand what you are actually doing,
otherwise you wouldn't be claiming that I was totally wrong, or invoking
their optically distributed master clock as if were part of your system.
Can you see the APC connector and the fiber?
https://highlandtechnology.com/Product/V880
The VCXO of the PLL is the shiny cube. It's mounted on tiny
custom-made springs to isolate it from shocks from un-mating the SMB
connectors.
Here's the PLL
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cobd3t4eorcsgrt/22S880D.pdf?raw=1
It uses a Dflop bang-bang ECL phase detector. I sure you don't
approve.
The "circuit diagram" shows U11 as square block labelled ECL/VCO.

That makes it the top level block diagram - a more complete circuit
diagram might be more informative, but you can't afford to reveal how
cheap and nasty the guts of your board is.
Post by john larkin
We originally uses a Vectron OC3 optical receiver module. It used a
SAW filter to recover the clock and had very low time shift vs optical
power. But they quit making it as OC3 fell out of fashion so I had to
design a drop-in replacement. I'll use an SFP module if we do this
again.
Do I have to give the awards back?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rb0fasr1flvvk51/NIF_Award.jpg?raw=1
Why should you? They are passed out to keep sub-contractors happy.
Post by john larkin
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
We recently delivered our third system to NIF, the second generation
beamline amplitude modulators. This helped them achieve over-unity
fusion yield.
Not as much as a better designed system would have.
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
I had much the same problem in 1988 and went for a free-running 800MHz
oscillator.
It turns out that the first version of John's 50MHz oscillator had a
nasty - if small - sub-harmonic oscillation and he's finally found a
better version.
It did not.
You recently told Phil Hobbs here that something like it did .. in the
"fast discrete PHEMT one-shot thread".
Different project, a GHz squegg and not a sub-harmonic oscillation.
Squegging is a sub-harmonic oscillation. It repeats over periods longer
than the primary oscillation frequency.
Post by john larkin
The new oscillator fixes that and has superb jitter vs time open-loop,
so the diversion was well worth it. It's so good that I might do a
cheaper DDG based on the open-loop triggered oscillator.
It's presumably "insanely good" - by which you'd mean that we'd have to
be nuts to take you seriously.
Post by john larkin
Post by Bill Sloman
"Tell me about that. My triggered 50 MHz colpitts oscillator squegged
at around 4 GHz. Tons of jitter.
I designed a new osc using a BUF602 and it's great."
Finding that prompted me to find his Murata 5GHz ferrite bead post,
which I'd been kicking myself for not writing into my day-book.
I'm sure that you are going to tell us that this referred to a
completely different, much more recent project, but I suspect that it
was recycling the old idea and better test gear showed up an old problem.
Wrong. It's sad that you are driven by vanity and hatred and not
honest interest in electronics.
The vanity here is all yours. If you were interested in electronics you
wouldn't trying to pass off a block diagram as if it were an explanation
of what you were doing.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
john larkin
2024-05-28 13:25:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Post by Edward Rawde
It usually takes a while to work out why they did it that way, and it's pretty much essential to spend that time before you start
fiddling with the circuit. That wasn't true of the guy who'd put in the 741. He was very much in the John Larkin "if it sort of
works, ship it" camp.
Which of John Larkin's products have you purchased and tested and what improvement
do you think should have been made before it was shipped?
Absolutely none of them. The timing gear he sells to the American
National Ignition Facility is based on a 1978 Hewlett Packard scheme,
written up in their journal, and it depends on starting up a 50MHz
free-running oscillator in a very predictable way.
Totally wrong, as usual. The NIF timing system is synchronous at
155.52 MHz across over 200 timing modules, about 2000 "clients"
triggered every shot.
https://highlandtechnology.com/Product/V880
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/74f60yne8cdlr53n1x1la/TUAP069.pdf?rlkey=4lp86ca0ztfuh055qyxtok9lm&dl=0
That write-up doesn't mention the 1978 Hewlett-Packard Journal article
which you have talked about here.
It's a full bottle on the the 155.52 MHz timing scheme which is spread a
across the whole site, which provides the start signal for your delay
generators, but the individual delays generated don't depend on it at
all (although it presumably provides the reference timing for any
auto-calibration that you do)
You know nothing about this and are, as usual, all wrong. ALL the
module timing is based on the 155.52 MHz clock, which is generated by
a local PLL that is locked to the OC3 optical data stream.
All the module timing may depend on the 155.52MHz master clock, but the
connection between edges on that clock and the signal the module puts
out to fire the laser is decidedly indirect.
If you divided up the gaps between the 155.52MHz edges to generate your
1psec accurate laser driving pulses you'd be able to claim a direct
connection.
155.52MHz is a bit slow for a master clock in such a system.
Post by john larkin
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
Post by jim whitby
Faster oscillators have less jitter, and while synchronising to a
continuously running faster oscillator twice may introduce extra jitter,
the net jitter on the time delay can be quite a bit less.
We deliver 1 ps timing resolution and a few ps RMS jitter to clients
across a facility the size of a football stadium.
Perhaps, but you clearly don't understand what you are actually doing,
otherwise you wouldn't be claiming that I was totally wrong, or invoking
their optically distributed master clock as if were part of your system.
Can you see the APC connector and the fiber?
https://highlandtechnology.com/Product/V880
The VCXO of the PLL is the shiny cube. It's mounted on tiny
custom-made springs to isolate it from shocks from un-mating the SMB
connectors.
Here's the PLL
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cobd3t4eorcsgrt/22S880D.pdf?raw=1
It uses a Dflop bang-bang ECL phase detector. I sure you don't
approve.
The "circuit diagram" shows U11 as square block labelled ECL/VCO.
You have such a compulsion to be nasty that you don't even mind
looking silly.

U1 is a purchased ECL VCTCXO. A component on the "circuit diagram."

What I posted is actually sheet 2 of the PADS schematic whose netlist
created the physical PC board and its BOM. Sheet 1 of that 18 sheet
schematic is the block diagram. Our schematics always start with a
sheet-1 title sheet: block diagram, table of contents, filled-out
title block and, until formally released, progress notes.

(People rarely post schematics to SED.)

You actually don't know or care much about electronics, so there's no
point talking to you.
Bill Sloman
2024-05-28 15:19:30 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by john larkin
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by john larkin
It uses a Dflop bang-bang ECL phase detector. I sure you don't
approve.
The "circuit diagram" shows U11 as square block labelled ECL/VCO.
You have such a compulsion to be nasty that you don't even mind
looking silly.
U1 is a purchased ECL VCTCXO. A component on the "circuit diagram."
But there's no part number or manufacturer.
Post by john larkin
What I posted is actually sheet 2 of the PADS schematic whose netlist
created the physical PC board and its BOM. Sheet 1 of that 18 sheet
schematic is the block diagram. Our schematics always start with a
sheet-1 title sheet: block diagram, table of contents, filled-out
title block and, until formally released, progress notes.
(People rarely post schematics to SED.)
What get posted more are LTSpice .asc files, which are more informative
(if done right).
Post by john larkin
You actually don't know or care much about electronics, so there's no
point talking to you.
"You have such a compulsion to be nasty that you don't even mind
Post by john larkin
looking silly."
In fact I don't seem to be a narcissist and I'm not in the least worried
about looking silly. I find real electronics fascinating, and get
irritated by poseurs like you who pretend to electronic expertise and
won't talk about the interesting parts of their circuits (like the
ECL-based VCO - which is presumably a varactor-tuned narrow band device).

I won't flatter you, so you don't find any point in talking to me.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Cursitor Doom
2024-05-27 17:01:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Rawde
I still don't see why it matters so much when the two of you are in
different countries and, correct me if I'm wrong,
you've never used or tested any of JL's products.
I'll tell you exactly why Bill has a bug up his arse about John. Many,
many years ago, Bill went to John for a job. Bill is admittedly pretty
good at electronics, but he also has a *terrible* attitude problem and
prefers to spend as much time as possible thumbing through discredited
Marxist theory (like as if it's worth anyone's time to read that crap).
Fortunately, John saw through Bill at the last moment and declined to hire
him. Bill's never forgiven John for that bullet-dodging decision.
Bill Sloman
2024-05-28 15:42:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cursitor Doom
Post by Edward Rawde
I still don't see why it matters so much when the two of you are in
different countries and, correct me if I'm wrong,
you've never used or tested any of JL's products.
I'll tell you exactly why Bill has a bug up his arse about John. Many,
many years ago, Bill went to John for a job. Bill is admittedly pretty
good at electronics, but he also has a *terrible* attitude problem and
prefers to spend as much time as possible thumbing through discredited
Marxist theory (like as if it's worth anyone's time to read that crap).
This is about as "exact" as the rest of Cursitor Doom's regular nonsense.

The people I've worked for and with don't seem to think that I've got an
attitude problem, and the closest I've got reading "Marxist Theory" are
books like "Capital in the 21st Century" and "the Spirit Level".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level_(book)

This is one more of Cursitor Doom's fatuous inventions.
Post by Cursitor Doom
Fortunately, John saw through Bill at the last moment and declined to hire
him. Bill's never forgiven John for that bullet-dodging decision.
On the contrary what John did to get up my nose was to copy my private
e-mail - which wasn't applying for a job but responding to an open
request by John on s.e.d. that had asked for sub-contract assistance -
to Jim Thompson, who promptly posted a boast on s.e.d. that he'd saved
John from making the terrible mistake of having anything to do with me.

I certainly wasn't going to more to California to take up a job with
John, but I had done some remote consulting, and it had - sort of - worked.

Giving Jim Thompson anything to gloat about hadn't been part of the
plan, and my already not-all-that-positive opinion of John became rather
more negative.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Edward Rawde
2024-05-30 01:26:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by Cursitor Doom
Post by Edward Rawde
I still don't see why it matters so much when the two of you are in
different countries and, correct me if I'm wrong,
you've never used or tested any of JL's products.
I'll tell you exactly why Bill has a bug up his arse about John. Many,
many years ago, Bill went to John for a job. Bill is admittedly pretty
good at electronics, but he also has a *terrible* attitude problem and
prefers to spend as much time as possible thumbing through discredited
Marxist theory (like as if it's worth anyone's time to read that crap).
This is about as "exact" as the rest of Cursitor Doom's regular nonsense.
The people I've worked for and with don't seem to think that I've got an attitude problem, and the closest I've got reading
"Marxist Theory" are books like "Capital in the 21st Century" and "the Spirit Level".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Century
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level_(book)
This is one more of Cursitor Doom's fatuous inventions.
Post by Cursitor Doom
Fortunately, John saw through Bill at the last moment and declined to hire
him. Bill's never forgiven John for that bullet-dodging decision.
On the contrary what John did to get up my nose was to copy my private e-mail - which wasn't applying for a job but responding to
an open request by John on s.e.d. that had asked for sub-contract assistance - to Jim Thompson, who promptly posted a boast on
s.e.d. that he'd saved John from making the terrible mistake of having anything to do with me.
Well you didn't seem to like Jim Thompson very much either as I remember.

This thread would likely be three times bigger if JT were still around.

I've had it happen to me (nothing to do with anything here) that someone forwarded an email in a context different from what I
intended.

Anyway I think it's now clear why you don't like JL and that it's never going to change so I'll leave it there.
Post by Bill Sloman
I certainly wasn't going to more to California to take up a job with John, but I had done some remote consulting, and it had -
sort of - worked.
Giving Jim Thompson anything to gloat about hadn't been part of the plan, and my already not-all-that-positive opinion of John
became rather more negative.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2024-05-30 05:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by Cursitor Doom
Post by Edward Rawde
I still don't see why it matters so much when the two of you are in
different countries and, correct me if I'm wrong,
you've never used or tested any of JL's products.
I'll tell you exactly why Bill has a bug up his arse about John. Many,
many years ago, Bill went to John for a job. Bill is admittedly pretty
good at electronics, but he also has a *terrible* attitude problem and
prefers to spend as much time as possible thumbing through discredited
Marxist theory (like as if it's worth anyone's time to read that crap).
This is about as "exact" as the rest of Cursitor Doom's regular nonsense.
The people I've worked for and with don't seem to think that I've got an attitude problem, and the closest I've got reading
"Marxist Theory" are books like "Capital in the 21st Century" and "the Spirit Level".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Century
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level_(book)
This is one more of Cursitor Doom's fatuous inventions.
Post by Cursitor Doom
Fortunately, John saw through Bill at the last moment and declined to hire
him. Bill's never forgiven John for that bullet-dodging decision.
On the contrary what John did to get up my nose was to copy my private e-mail - which wasn't applying for a job but responding to
an open request by John on s.e.d. that had asked for sub-contract assistance - to Jim Thompson, who promptly posted a boast on
s.e.d. that he'd saved John from making the terrible mistake of having anything to do with me.
Well you didn't seem to like Jim Thompson very much either as I remember.
He thought that I was a dangerously anti-American leftist and claimed to
have reported me to FBI about it. I'd used some of his integrated
circuits, and found them useful, but less than user-friendly, so we
didn't think all that highly of one another. I saw him more as a
nut-case than somebody worth actively disliking.

John Larkin is a different kind of nut-case, which means that I object
to some of the things he says at fairly regular intervals, but the
dislike is for what he says - he does sort-of-useful stuff, and gets
paid for it. The sort of useful stuff I do is unpaid, and worth even less.
Post by Edward Rawde
This thread would likely be three times bigger if JT were still around.
I've had it happen to me (nothing to do with anything here) that someone forwarded an email in a context different from what I
intended.
Anyway I think it's now clear why you don't like JL and that it's never going to change so I'll leave it there.
<snip>
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
john larkin
2024-05-26 16:30:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2024 14:38:20 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
Post by Edward Rawde
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
John Larkin doesn't seem to 'design" anything. He throws together the stuff he sells like every other tinkerer.
Why does that matter to you so much?
Mainly because he can't do it.

But board-level electronic design is precisely throwing parts
together, and then selling the result. It doesn't matter much whether
one uses closed-form equations, or instinct, or random selection and
testing. What matters is whether the result sells, and at what price.

The real Art of Electronics is keeping the price up.
Post by Edward Rawde
I have two books in front of me.
One is "Introduction to Solid State Physics, C. Kittel"
The other is "FET Circuits. Rufus P Turner"
If I open the physics book at a random page I find a contour integral.
I wasn't bad at math and can handle contour integrals but it is also true that I grew up in a very practical electronics environment
where getting things working was way more important than understanding every little detail of the theory of how they worked.
Spice totally changed things. Imagination and simulation have mostly
eliminated math beyond simple algebra. The last symbolic integral I
took was maybe 20 years ago and it just confirmed a fet power
dissipation estimate.

It helps to understand what's going on, but it's not necessary. What
matters is if it works.
Post by Edward Rawde
If I open the FET book at a random page I find a circuit which may be usable as the basis of something I want to "design".
This isn't true of the physics book but that doesn't mean I don't find it to be interesting or useful knowledge.
Human psychology obviously plays a big part in electronics design as it does in electronics designers.
Psychology, human emotions and prejudices, dominate electronic design.
They dominate science even more; more because we don't need to publish
in peer-reviewed journals to advance our careers. We only need to
design stuff that works.
Post by Edward Rawde
It does seem to be a trait of many (not all) electronics designers that if another designer isn't doing it the way they would do it
then they must be doing it wrong.
Would you be kind enough to give your opinion of John Larkin once per month instead of twice per day?
He's background noise. Ignore him.

But it must be a sad life to obsess on John Larkin. I wouldn't want to
do that!
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-24 16:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 18:10:58 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
Indeed.
That was, in my opinion, a reasonable observation. Nasty humorless
people DO usually design nasty electronics. Or no electronics.
You call a blatant attack on bitrex reasonable observation? Would you
welcome my opinion of you?
Post by john larkin
Please post a schematic or a Spice sim of something that you have
designed. That would be interesting to discuss.
Electronic design requires some native talent and education and
experience, but is in the end gated by emotions. Engineering schools
don't seem to have courses about that, and they should. In fact, the
academic establishment actively avoids addressing this dominant issue.
One classic book was The Psychology of Computer Programming by Gerald
Weinberg. It deals with essentially the same issues, smart people
behaving badly.
Bill Sloman
2024-05-23 04:30:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Exactly. Cheap insults are, well, cheap.
SED should be, and arguably was, a place where one could post
architectures and circuits and essentially publicly brainstorm, get
ideas from other people. Designing in public [1]. I've learned a lot
that way. And SED needs things to discuss instead of Climate Change
and Palestine. [2]
John Larkin doesn't design at all, and certainly not in public. He may
have learned a lot, but he still has a lot to learn.

S.E.D. could use more electronic discussion, but popular issues keep
people posting and reading between the ocasional bits of itnerswtign
electronics. John Larkin has posted recipes here.
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
SED, and I guess usenet, is slowly dying. The nasty noise has driven
away most of the people who are really interested in electronics.
Says one of the nastier noise generators.
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Can anyone recommend a better, more civil, moderated forum to discuss
electronic design?
1. [not the really good ones, obviously]
2. [opinions on such subjects are not testable. Circuits are.]
Opinions on that subject are easily testable - post a link to the
"better" forum and we can look at it for ourselves.

What John Larkin seems to want is the fulsome flattery he isn't equipped
to earn.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-22 16:37:33 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Nope. Not name calling. Just stating a fact.
john larkin
2024-05-22 16:42:14 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 May 2024 17:37:33 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Nope. Not name calling. Just stating a fact.
Is it narcissistic to post circuit ideas here for discussion?
Bill Sloman
2024-05-23 11:44:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 17:37:33 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
On Wed, 22 May 2024 13:58:13 -0000 (UTC), jim whitby
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
Nope. Not name calling. Just stating a fact.
Is it narcissistic to post circuit ideas here for discussion?
It wouldn't be, but that's not what you do.
You expect to be praised and get nasty when the flattery isn't as
fulsome as you'd hoped for.
Discussion never comes into it.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2024-05-23 04:05:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
That's not name calling. John Larkin is a narcissist, and has been since
he started posting here.

John Fields was spelling this out more than ten years ago. It's
blindingly obvious, and always has been.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-23 11:26:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
That's not name calling. John Larkin is a narcissist, and has been since
he started posting here.
John Fields was spelling this out more than ten years ago. It's
blindingly obvious, and always has been.
Bill, don't forget Jim Thompson, krw etc. Not the nicest characters
but they all had the measure of Larkin.
Pomegranate Bastard
2024-05-23 11:27:48 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 23 May 2024 12:26:19 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by jim whitby
<snip>
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't feel
the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Spoken like a true liberal.
When things don't go your way... start name calling.
That's not name calling. John Larkin is a narcissist, and has been since
he started posting here.
John Fields was spelling this out more than ten years ago. It's
blindingly obvious, and always has been.
Bill, don't forget Jim Thompson, krw etc. Not the nicest characters
but they all had the measure of Larkin.
Not forgetting your good self of course :-).
Jeroen Belleman
2024-05-22 14:32:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
I love designing electronics. It doesn't hurt a bit.
So do I, and have done since 1972.
Post by john larkin
Why do you post to SED if you don't like electronics?
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Please *do* show us how clever you are. We're always willing
to learn.

Jeroen Belleman
john larkin
2024-05-22 14:58:59 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 May 2024 16:32:26 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
Post by Jeroen Belleman
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
I love designing electronics. It doesn't hurt a bit.
So do I, and have done since 1972.
Post by john larkin
Why do you post to SED if you don't like electronics?
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Please *do* show us how clever you are. We're always willing
to learn.
Jeroen Belleman
This IS an electronic design discussion group. It seems
counter-productive to discourage posting about circuits.

I note that the chronic insulters never post new circuits, or make
intelligent comments about the few that are posted. Actual electronic
design seems to annoy them; one wonders why.
john larkin
2024-05-22 16:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 16:32:26 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
Post by Jeroen Belleman
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
I love designing electronics. It doesn't hurt a bit.
So do I, and have done since 1972.
Post by john larkin
Why do you post to SED if you don't like electronics?
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Please *do* show us how clever you are. We're always willing
to learn.
Jeroen Belleman
This IS an electronic design discussion group. It seems
counter-productive to discourage posting about circuits.
I note that the chronic insulters never post new circuits, or make
intelligent comments about the few that are posted. Actual electronic
design seems to annoy them; one wonders why.
There is "technician syndrome", which is when support people, like
techs and PCB layout and such, hate engineers because they think that
we somehow do magic that they can't understand. Always males, in my
experience.

In Silicon Valley, there is a whole tech culture, guys who dress like
cowboys and drive pickups and go to lunch at strip clubs and such.
They think engineers are effeminate wusses; they also resent that the
engineers seem to get the best women.

Some people with EE degrees have this same feeling.

One of the the hardest things to do in life is to get comfortable with
what your are.
john larkin
2024-05-22 16:46:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 16:32:26 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
Post by Jeroen Belleman
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
I love designing electronics. It doesn't hurt a bit.
So do I, and have done since 1972.
Post by john larkin
Why do you post to SED if you don't like electronics?
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Please *do* show us how clever you are. We're always willing
to learn.
Jeroen Belleman
This IS an electronic design discussion group. It seems
counter-productive to discourage posting about circuits.
I note that the chronic insulters never post new circuits, or make
intelligent comments about the few that are posted. Actual electronic
design seems to annoy them; one wonders why.
There is "technician syndrome", which is when support people, like
techs and PCB layout and such, hate engineers because they think that
we somehow do magic that they can't understand. Always males, in my
experience.
In Silicon Valley, there is a whole tech culture, guys who dress like
cowboys and drive pickups and go to lunch at strip clubs and such.
They think engineers are effeminate wusses; they also resent that the
engineers seem to get the best women.
Some people with EE degrees have this same feeling.
One of the the hardest things to do in life is to get comfortable with
what your are.
Few female engineers ever post here. It would be interesting to get
their perspective on this.
chrisq
2024-05-22 22:36:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 16:32:26 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
Post by Jeroen Belleman
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
I love designing electronics. It doesn't hurt a bit.
So do I, and have done since 1972.
Post by john larkin
Why do you post to SED if you don't like electronics?
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Please *do* show us how clever you are. We're always willing
to learn.
Jeroen Belleman
This IS an electronic design discussion group. It seems
counter-productive to discourage posting about circuits.
I note that the chronic insulters never post new circuits, or make
intelligent comments about the few that are posted. Actual electronic
design seems to annoy them; one wonders why.
There is "technician syndrome", which is when support people, like
techs and PCB layout and such, hate engineers because they think that
we somehow do magic that they can't understand. Always males, in my
experience.
In Silicon Valley, there is a whole tech culture, guys who dress like
cowboys and drive pickups and go to lunch at strip clubs and such.
They think engineers are effeminate wusses; they also resent that the
engineers seem to get the best women.
Some people with EE degrees have this same feeling.
One of the the hardest things to do in life is to get comfortable with
what your are.
Intelligent women look for guys with something between the ears, as
relationships are about trust and respect, in the end.
Getting the job done below is natural instinct, any fool can do that...
john larkin
2024-05-22 23:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 16:32:26 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
Post by Jeroen Belleman
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
I love designing electronics. It doesn't hurt a bit.
So do I, and have done since 1972.
Post by john larkin
Why do you post to SED if you don't like electronics?
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Please *do* show us how clever you are. We're always willing
to learn.
Jeroen Belleman
This IS an electronic design discussion group. It seems
counter-productive to discourage posting about circuits.
I note that the chronic insulters never post new circuits, or make
intelligent comments about the few that are posted. Actual electronic
design seems to annoy them; one wonders why.
There is "technician syndrome", which is when support people, like
techs and PCB layout and such, hate engineers because they think that
we somehow do magic that they can't understand. Always males, in my
experience.
In Silicon Valley, there is a whole tech culture, guys who dress like
cowboys and drive pickups and go to lunch at strip clubs and such.
They think engineers are effeminate wusses; they also resent that the
engineers seem to get the best women.
Some people with EE degrees have this same feeling.
One of the the hardest things to do in life is to get comfortable with
what your are.
Intelligent women look for guys with something between the ears, as
relationships are about trust and respect, in the end.
Getting the job done below is natural instinct, any fool can do that...
Both boys and girls have brains and bodies.
Bill Sloman
2024-05-23 12:06:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 16:32:26 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
<snip>
Post by john larkin
Both boys and girls have brains and bodies.
The Australian media are currently making a fuss about domestic
violence, mainly because the police used to ignore it, as they ignored
gay-bashing.

Some boy's brains get very badly misprogrammed.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2024-05-23 11:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 16:32:26 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
<snip>
Post by john larkin
There is "technician syndrome", which is when support people, like
techs and PCB layout and such, hate engineers because they think that
we somehow do magic that they can't understand. Always males, in my
experience.
It happens, but not all that often. There's one who posts here from time
to time, but I seem to have repressed his name.
Post by john larkin
In Silicon Valley, there is a whole tech culture, guys who dress like
cowboys and drive pickups and go to lunch at strip clubs and such.
They think engineers are effeminate wusses; they also resent that the
engineers seem to get the best women.
Not a a feature English, Australia or Dutch electronic life.
There are America's who think that Donald Trump has "common sense" -
their culture fosters some rather strange delusions.
Post by john larkin
Some people with EE degrees have this same feeling.
Haven't met any.
Post by john larkin
One of the the hardest things to do in life is to get comfortable with
what your are.
Narcissist dwarfs have more of a problem than most of the population.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2024-05-23 11:48:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 16:32:26 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
Post by Jeroen Belleman
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:40:51 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
Is that what happened to you?
I love designing electronics. It doesn't hurt a bit.
So do I, and have done since 1972.
Post by john larkin
Why do you post to SED if you don't like electronics?
Who says I don't? Unlike you, an odious little narcissist, I don't
feel the need to show everyone here how clever I am.
Please *do* show us how clever you are. We're always willing
to learn.
Jeroen Belleman
This IS an electronic design discussion group. It seems
counter-productive to discourage posting about circuits.
I note that the chronic insulters never post new circuits, or make
intelligent comments about the few that are posted. Actual electronic
design seems to annoy them; one wonders why.
John Larkin doesn't pay much attention to electronic circuits he didn't
post. He does find it irritating that his contributions don't get the
admiration he feels they deserve.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2024-05-25 06:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Wed, 22 May 2024 16:32:26 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
<snip>
Post by john larkin
This IS an electronic design discussion group. It seems
counter-productive to discourage posting about circuits.
It isn't counter-productive to discourage posting about bad circuits,
and while posts from people who don't actually know what their circuit
is doing may generate useful discussion, they are of themselves helpful.
Post by john larkin
I note that the chronic insulters never post new circuits, or make
intelligent comments about the few that are posted. Actual electronic
design seems to annoy them; one wonders why.
John Larkin is careful not to post an actual name. If I'm one of his
"chronic insulters", I have posted new circuits here, and made what I
imagine to be intelligent comments about them and others.

The "micro power square wave oscillator" thread from July 2 2008 does
come to mind.

I didn't post my version of a circuit that worked at 100kHz until the
7th July 2008 - I'd been house-sitting my brother's house in Australia
when the thread started, which had limited what I could do - and I
reworked John Field's circuit with a real inductor one could buy off the
shelf, and got it to work too.

John Larkin hasn't done anything like that - or if he has I've repressed
the memory pretty effectively.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2024-05-22 06:25:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
On Tue, 21 May 2024 18:16:28 +0100, Pomegranate Bastard
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary. I suspect they
are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
No.
Of course not. Electronics design would hurt your head.
A mild variant of the Sallen and Key's active filter isn't electronic
design - it's just twiddling.

If you could tell us why you needed it, and how your twiddle was some
kind of unique solution to your perceived problem, you might be able to
ague that your getting there was an example of you doing electronic
design, but you won't. What ever hurt your head seems to have cost you
that capacity.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2024-05-22 06:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Post by john larkin
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/05/20/joe-biden-democrats-green-transition-evs-energy-costs/
"Contrast Biden voter certainty with their knowledge about carbon
dioxide. Nearly one in five Biden voters think there should be no
carbon dioxide at all because it’s a poison..."
"Forty four per cent of Trump voters and 26 per cent of Biden voters
were able to correctly identify the approximate concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; nearly three quarters of Biden
voters were wrong by a factor of between 100 and 1000."
Are we surprised ?. More like mass psychosis and death wish at the
highest levels of western governments. So infused with dogma and
dodgy science, they will bring down the whole house, rather than
admit they are wrong.
There's nothing dodgy about climate science. It's conclusions don't suit
the fossil carbon extraction industry which has a lot of money, some of
which it spends on climate change denial propaganda
Post by john larkin
Yes. What social media has done is magnified the already tribal
behavior of believing what everyone else apparently believes. Only the
tribes are now billions of people worldwide. That's an unstable
dynamic that results in all sorts of random delusions.
Anthropogenic global warming isn't any kind of delusion. If John Larkin
had ever learned much about science he'd be aware if this.
Post by john larkin
The other thing we're seeing is fear, depression, and despair, over
Climate Change and other things. Lots of fear.
There's no need for fear, depression or despair about anthropogenic
global warming. We finally seem to have got to the point where CO2
emissions have peaked. We still have to get to the point where they get
done to the point where the CO2 level in the atmosphere can start to
fall, but at least it is in sight.
Post by john larkin
Post by chrisq
Still, control the cost and access to energy worldwide, and they
will control the world. Fascism, same shit, different wrapper...
One nice thing about renewable energy is that solar cells and wind
turbines come in small modules. You can put them where you need energy.

You can couple them together into larger grids, and get some advantage
from doing it, but renewable energy doesn't offer authoritarian regimes
any kind of political advantage (which may be be one of the reasons so
many people are lying about it).
Post by john larkin
There is some of that, using climate as a power-mongering tool, but it
wouldn't work if not powered by so much public fear and hysteria.
There isn't any fear or hysteria around (except perhaps in the fossil
carbon extraction industry, as they look forward to rapidly diminishing
cash flows).
Post by john larkin
I wonder if such fear and innumeracy are hereditary.
Your kids don't seem to be as enumerate as you are.
Post by john larkin
I suspect they are. If the lunatic greenies don't want to breed, and they mostly
don't, the sane people will slowly pull ahead.
"Lunatic greenies" who don't want to breed seem to be one of the more
implausible inventions of the climate change denial propaganda machine.
John Larkin is a gullible twit, and he is convinced that they exist.
I've never met one.
Post by john larkin
So as a long-term investment, buy Exxon stock.
Not good advice.
Post by john larkin
(I have a mild variant on the Sallen-Key lowpass filter. Is anyone
interested?)
https://archive.org/details/ElectronicFilterDesignHandbook4thEd

is a full bottle on active low pass filters. They do cover the Sallen
and Keys configuration, and a lot of variations. I like the one with a
little bit of gain that lets me use equal value capacitors.

It your "mild" variant one they didn't cover?
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
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