LCD (large -- TV-ish) monitors with SOLID front surface?

[Don Y]

I'm looking for a new monitor to back my electric whiteboard.
I've been using a plasma monitor (40" TV) up until now as it
has a hard front surface that can stand up to being "written on"
(with an invisible ink marker pen).

[Imagine your actions when writing on a "whiteboard"]

Most LCD (TVs) seem to have a really flimsy front surface.

I suspect the plasma's front screen is a (necessary) consequence
of the technology. And, not essential for LCD.

Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

[john larkin]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 12:43:59 -0700, Don Y <***@foo.invalid>
wrote:

Hi, foo,

Post by Don Y
I'm looking for a new monitor to back my electric whiteboard.

What's an electric whiteboard?

Post by Don Y
I've been using a plasma monitor (40" TV) up until now as it
has a hard front surface that can stand up to being "written on"
(with an invisible ink marker pen).

Invisible ink pen?

Post by Don Y
[Imagine your actions when writing on a "whiteboard"]
Most LCD (TVs) seem to have a really flimsy front surface.
I suspect the plasma's front screen is a (necessary) consequence
of the technology. And, not essential for LCD.
Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

My Sony OLED TV feels pretty solid. And has phenomenal color and
contrast. But I wouldn't use it as a whiteboard.

Interestingly, the sound comes out of the screen.

[Jasen Betts]

Post by Don Y
I'm looking for a new monitor to back my electric whiteboard.
I've been using a plasma monitor (40" TV) up until now as it
has a hard front surface that can stand up to being "written on"
(with an invisible ink marker pen).
[Imagine your actions when writing on a "whiteboard"]
Most LCD (TVs) seem to have a really flimsy front surface.
I suspect the plasma's front screen is a (necessary) consequence
of the technology. And, not essential for LCD.
Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

It sounds like you want to put a glass screen protector on the front
of a regular monitor (the front of a regular LCD monitor is the plastic
polariser)

The largest glass screen protector I've seen was for a 10" tablet, but they
may make them in larger sizes.

[Don Y]

Post by Jasen Betts

Post by Don Y
Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

It sounds like you want to put a glass screen protector on the front
of a regular monitor (the front of a regular LCD monitor is the plastic
polariser)

That might work. Glass or Lexan. It would have to stand up to the
(slight) abrasion of the "invisible marker pen" (Lexan seems to scratch
even when you think you aren't using anything abrasive; glass might be
problematic at that large size).

Fastening it to the monitor would be a challenge, though.

Plasma TVs seem to have a really robust front surface. I've seen such
a surface on *some* LCD "monitors" (20-24 inch range) but larger TVs
seem to not be as robust.

Post by Jasen Betts
The largest glass screen protector I've seen was for a 10" tablet, but they
may make them in larger sizes.

Is it like a screen protector for a *phone* -- that adheres directly to the
normal screen? Or, is it mounted mechanically? (and, how "universal" would
such a mount be?)

It would also have to be much thicker than the things used on phones,
especially over such a long span. E.g., I've demonstrated the durability
of the current plasma TV by pounding on it with a *shoe* (while powered off)
to demonstrate how hard it is to crack...

[Don Y]

Post by Jasen Betts

Post by Don Y
Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

It sounds like you want to put a glass screen protector on the front
of a regular monitor (the front of a regular LCD monitor is the plastic
polariser)

That might work.  Glass or Lexan.  It would have to stand up to the
(slight) abrasion of the "invisible marker pen" (Lexan seems to scratch
even when you think you aren't using anything abrasive; glass might be
problematic at that large size).
Fastening it to the monitor would be a challenge, though.

I tried setting a (undersized) sheet of 1/4" lexan on a monitor, here.
It bears up to the weight (force) but makes writing a bit less natural;
parallax makes the "ink's" appearance seem to be in the wrong place
wrt the pen's tip. You'd have to stand more directly behind the pen
(instead of to the left or right of it, based on handedness).

Maybe I can find something thinner yet still rigid enough to avoid
flexing over such a large distance. Perhaps tempered/safety glass?

[Jasen Betts]

Post by Don Y

Post by Jasen Betts

Post by Don Y
Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

It sounds like you want to put a glass screen protector on the front
of a regular monitor (the front of a regular LCD monitor is the plastic
polariser)

That might work. Glass or Lexan. It would have to stand up to the
(slight) abrasion of the "invisible marker pen" (Lexan seems to scratch
even when you think you aren't using anything abrasive; glass might be
problematic at that large size).
Fastening it to the monitor would be a challenge, though.
Plasma TVs seem to have a really robust front surface. I've seen such
a surface on *some* LCD "monitors" (20-24 inch range) but larger TVs
seem to not be as robust.

Post by Jasen Betts
The largest glass screen protector I've seen was for a 10" tablet, but they
may make them in larger sizes.

Is it like a screen protector for a *phone* -- that adheres directly to the
normal screen? Or, is it mounted mechanically? (and, how "universal" would
such a mount be?)

it is a thin glass sheet some fraction of a millimeter thick and about as
flexible as a payment card. there is a weak pressure sensitive adhesive
on the back side. (some sort of "peel and stick")

Similar protectors are used on mobile phones.

Post by Don Y
It would also have to be much thicker than the things used on phones,
especially over such a long span. E.g., I've demonstrated the durability
of the current plasma TV by pounding on it with a *shoe* (while powered off)
to demonstrate how hard it is to crack...

It's supported by the ahesive and the display it's stuck to. if you
only want to protect the display from chemicals and abrasion then thin
will work.

If it was stiffer than the display glass you'd need to disassemble the
display to install the protector. (if wanting to mount it using adhesive)

Or else live with a gap between the display and the protector (increasing
parallax and potentially collecting debris)

[Don Y]

Post by Jasen Betts

Post by Don Y
Plasma TVs seem to have a really robust front surface. I've seen such
a surface on *some* LCD "monitors" (20-24 inch range) but larger TVs
seem to not be as robust.
It would also have to be much thicker than the things used on phones,
especially over such a long span. E.g., I've demonstrated the durability
of the current plasma TV by pounding on it with a *shoe* (while powered off)
to demonstrate how hard it is to crack...

It's supported by the ahesive and the display it's stuck to. if you
only want to protect the display from chemicals and abrasion then thin
will work.

The front polarizer of a typical LCD TV ("really big monitor") tends to
be flimsy. A thin piece of glass/lexan might work in that it could
distribute the forces over a larger area -- providing "localized stiffness"
instead of OVERALL stiffness.

Imagine yourself writing on a whiteboard; your motions tend not to be
delicate and deliberate but, rather, sharp and erratic. I need to protect
the LCD display from your "abuse".

At the same time, ensuring that the protective layer doesn't end up scratched
and cloudy from repeated "markings".

Post by Jasen Betts
If it was stiffer than the display glass you'd need to disassemble the
display to install the protector. (if wanting to mount it using adhesive)
Or else live with a gap between the display and the protector (increasing
parallax and potentially collecting debris)

The parallax is disturbing. Your "ink" appears *in* the display but your
"writing actions" occur outside the protective layer. So, if there's a
schematic, program listing, photoplot, etc. being displayed on ("in")
the display, it requires a bit more effort to make your marks where you
want them, relative to what is already being displayed (and *updated* to
include your marks).

If you were preparing a document /with deliberation/, you could improve the
accuracy of those markings -- and, edit them until they were as intended.

But, if you are mirroring the display to other sites, then your actions
will tend to be more hurried as you are just trying to present ideas
quickly -- and revise them just as quickly.

If you think of a TV weatherperson interacting with a green-screen,
you can get a sense of how that sort of awkward interface affects
the precision of their annotations (anything "exact" is done off-line
where it can be revised over time; live updates tend to be really crude,
by comparison).

If parallax is the only option, I can use an alternate technology that
eliminates it -- in favor of other shortcomings. :<

[I *really* don't want to use another plasma TV as they throw off
a lot of heat so you can't ALSO use them as a practical TV (which
would eliminate the need to STORE the thing when not in use!)]

[Jasen Betts]

Post by Don Y
The front polarizer of a typical LCD TV ("really big monitor") tends to
be flimsy. A thin piece of glass/lexan might work in that it could
distribute the forces over a larger area -- providing "localized stiffness"
instead of OVERALL stiffness.
Imagine yourself writing on a whiteboard; your motions tend not to be
delicate and deliberate but, rather, sharp and erratic. I need to protect
the LCD display from your "abuse".
At the same time, ensuring that the protective layer doesn't end up scratched
and cloudy from repeated "markings".

Post by Jasen Betts
If it was stiffer than the display glass you'd need to disassemble the
display to install the protector. (if wanting to mount it using adhesive)
Or else live with a gap between the display and the protector (increasing
parallax and potentially collecting debris)

The parallax is disturbing. Your "ink" appears *in* the display but your
"writing actions" occur outside the protective layer. So, if there's a
schematic, program listing, photoplot, etc. being displayed on ("in")
the display, it requires a bit more effort to make your marks where you
want them, relative to what is already being displayed (and *updated* to
include your marks).

Have you switched fron non-visible ink to virtual ink? Do you
actually want a touch sensing screen?

Post by Don Y
If you think of a TV weatherperson interacting with a green-screen,
you can get a sense of how that sort of awkward interface affects
the precision of their annotations (anything "exact" is done off-line
where it can be revised over time; live updates tend to be really crude,
by comparison).

These days they use actual displays instead of chromakey. Sometimes
even touch sensing displays; there's funny videos of the presenters
discovering this: eg.

Post by Don Y
If parallax is the only option, I can use an alternate technology that
eliminates it -- in favor of other shortcomings. :<
[I *really* don't want to use another plasma TV as they throw off
a lot of heat so you can't ALSO use them as a practical TV (which
would eliminate the need to STORE the thing when not in use!)]

Not knowing your actual requirements I'm going to refrain
from making specific suggestions.

[Don Y]

Post by Jasen Betts

Post by Don Y
The front polarizer of a typical LCD TV ("really big monitor") tends to
be flimsy. A thin piece of glass/lexan might work in that it could
distribute the forces over a larger area -- providing "localized stiffness"
instead of OVERALL stiffness.
Imagine yourself writing on a whiteboard; your motions tend not to be
delicate and deliberate but, rather, sharp and erratic. I need to protect
the LCD display from your "abuse".
At the same time, ensuring that the protective layer doesn't end up scratched
and cloudy from repeated "markings".

Post by Jasen Betts
If it was stiffer than the display glass you'd need to disassemble the
display to install the protector. (if wanting to mount it using adhesive)
Or else live with a gap between the display and the protector (increasing
parallax and potentially collecting debris)

The parallax is disturbing. Your "ink" appears *in* the display but your
"writing actions" occur outside the protective layer. So, if there's a
schematic, program listing, photoplot, etc. being displayed on ("in")
the display, it requires a bit more effort to make your marks where you
want them, relative to what is already being displayed (and *updated* to
include your marks).

Have you switched fron non-visible ink to virtual ink? Do you
actually want a touch sensing screen?

The pen that you *hold* has NO ink in it (hence "invisible ink").
I.e., I can scribble on the (current plasma) screen for hours and
you would never know where I had scribbled.

But, the pen *creates* "virtual ink" that appears in the video
signal displayed on ("in") the display.

If you start by displaying a white field, then a casual observer
thinks he is watching a person scribbling on a real whiteboard
(and wondering how the "market pen" keeps changing colors to suit
the wishes of the writer).

A *touch* screen would be nice but would complicate things in
that getting more than one (50-90 inch diagonal) would be costly.
My approach allows me to use a screen wherever I happen to be
(though this has had to be plasma, to date, due to the ruggedness
constraint)

A sheet of glass/lexan would actually be ideal as I could arrange
to have one of suitable size wherever I happened to be (to fit
whatever TV was available)!

Post by Jasen Betts

Post by Don Y
If you think of a TV weatherperson interacting with a green-screen,
you can get a sense of how that sort of awkward interface affects
the precision of their annotations (anything "exact" is done off-line
where it can be revised over time; live updates tend to be really crude,
by comparison).

These days they use actual displays instead of chromakey. Sometimes
even touch sensing displays; there's funny videos of the presenters
discovering this: eg. http://youtu.be/0Goz0PnhEg8

They are still green (or blue)-screens, here (local). The presenter is
always looking off to (e.g.) stage left to see the composite signal that
is being broadcast (i.e., with HIM/HER *in* it) to verify that he/she is
pointing and gesturing appropriately.

National broadcasters use more sophisticated displays.

Post by Jasen Betts

Post by Don Y
If parallax is the only option, I can use an alternate technology that
eliminates it -- in favor of other shortcomings. :<
[I *really* don't want to use another plasma TV as they throw off
a lot of heat so you can't ALSO use them as a practical TV (which
would eliminate the need to STORE the thing when not in use!)]

Not knowing your actual requirements I'm going to refrain
from making specific suggestions.