Electric vehicle battery fires, what to know and how to react

Post by Jan Panteltje
Electric vehicle battery fires - what to know and how to react
It's very rare, but lithium-ion batteries in electric vehicles can catch fire.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/08/electric-vehicle-battery-fires-what-t
o-know-and-how-to-react/
Good to know how to react when you electric car is on fire...

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Jan Panteltje

2024-08-25 11:42:25 UTC

On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...
Downstairs a 250 Ah lipo battery pack, those are supposed to not ignite
I have no 'lectric' car (yet?)
My bike will be OK...
Lots of Lipo batteries around the house, drone, radios, all sorts of stuff.

Storms here, maybe I should get a wind powered generator
may need a building permit ....
Solar panels I have, some flexible ones too for on a boat.
I have never had a phone on fire....

BillGill

2024-08-25 13:32:29 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...
Downstairs a 250 Ah lipo battery pack, those are supposed to not ignite
I have no 'lectric' car (yet?)
My bike will be OK...
Lots of Lipo batteries around the house, drone, radios, all sorts of stuff.
Storms here, maybe I should get a wind powered generator
may need a building permit ....
Solar panels I have, some flexible ones too for on a boat.
I have never had a phone on fire....

Recently I saw a video of a dog chewing on a battery pack.
He was very startled when it caught fire and set the rug on
fire.

So don't let your devices lie around when your pets can
reach them.

Bill

Jan Panteltje

2024-08-26 06:30:36 UTC

On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 08:32:29 -0500) it happened BillGill

Post by BillGill

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...
Downstairs a 250 Ah lipo battery pack, those are supposed to not ignite
I have no 'lectric' car (yet?)
My bike will be OK...
Lots of Lipo batteries around the house, drone, radios, all sorts of stuff.
Storms here, maybe I should get a wind powered generator
may need a building permit ....
Solar panels I have, some flexible ones too for on a boat.
I have never had a phone on fire....

Recently I saw a video of a dog chewing on a battery pack.
He was very startled when it caught fire and set the rug on
fire.
So don't let your devices lie around when your pets can
reach them.

There is a video online with a guy who enters a shop, puts a battery in his pocket, and his pockest catches fire.
He probably had a pocket knife or something metal in his pocket too, short...

john larkin

2024-08-26 16:00:21 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 08:32:29 -0500) it happened BillGill

Post by BillGill

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...
Downstairs a 250 Ah lipo battery pack, those are supposed to not ignite
I have no 'lectric' car (yet?)
My bike will be OK...
Lots of Lipo batteries around the house, drone, radios, all sorts of stuff.
Storms here, maybe I should get a wind powered generator
may need a building permit ....
Solar panels I have, some flexible ones too for on a boat.
I have never had a phone on fire....

Recently I saw a video of a dog chewing on a battery pack.
He was very startled when it caught fire and set the rug on
fire.
So don't let your devices lie around when your pets can
reach them.

There is a video online with a guy who enters a shop, puts a battery in his pocket, and his pockest catches fire.
He probably had a pocket knife or something metal in his pocket too, short...

One day I felt a burning sensation on my leg. It was a regular 9-volt
battery shorted by some coins.

When I was in high school chemistry class, we had some little
coin-sized radioactive samples, and I'd carry them home in my jeans
pocket. So far so good. The kids seem OK.

john larkin

2024-08-25 15:04:31 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...

We have a built-in ladder that accesses our flat roof from the bedroom
deck. After that, we could walk almost the entire block on peoples'
roofs.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Downstairs a 250 Ah lipo battery pack, those are supposed to not ignite
I have no 'lectric' car (yet?)
My bike will be OK...
Lots of Lipo batteries around the house, drone, radios, all sorts of stuff.
Storms here, maybe I should get a wind powered generator
may need a building permit ....

Does residential wind power make any sense?

Jan Panteltje

2024-08-26 06:26:55 UTC

On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 08:04:31 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...

We have a built-in ladder that accesses our flat roof from the bedroom
deck. After that, we could walk almost the entire block on peoples'
roofs.

Does residential wind power make any sense?

Well I am close to the coast.,,
there is always some wind, mostly from the west.
Last week I had to cut away at the roses that grow next to the frontdoor
as those were continuously slammed against the door and mailbox by the wind.
Roses have nasty dorns...

Last few days was weather alarm in much of the country, trees on cars,
Heavy lightning too, buckets full of rain.
I disconnect some stuff to protect it from lightning
Satellite disk primary target?
Now some warm days are coming .. it says.. more garden work planned..

When things get hotter I may need to plant some cactus plants...

Jeff Layman

2024-08-26 07:49:18 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...

We have a built-in ladder that accesses our flat roof from the bedroom
deck. After that, we could walk almost the entire block on peoples'
roofs.

Isn't that also a means of access for the criminal fraternity?

Does residential wind power make any sense?

Only if you want to annoy your neighbours with a loud whirring noise
when the wind is blowing. Of course, it depends on who you believe, and
who is providing full information. See
<https://tesup.com/uk/blogs/post/how-loud-are-household-wind-turbines>
From the information these wind turbine sellers provide it looks looks
really good - only 35 dB!

See the same graph at <https://windexchange.energy.gov/projects/sound>,
and you'll see that states the sound level is the same. BUT it also
notes in the caption under the graph "At 300 meters away, which is the
nearest distance a wind turbine typically is to a building, the sounds
produced by a large wind energy project range from 35–45 decibels..."

So as long as you're 300 metres (1000ft) from the domestic turbine the
sound level shouldn't bother you. How many urban or even suburban areas
do you know where the 300m distance is likely?

--
Jeff

Liz Tuddenham

2024-08-26 10:10:38 UTC

Jeff Layman <***@invalid.invalid> wrote:

[...]

Post by Jeff Layman
From the information these wind turbine sellers provide it looks looks
really good - only 35 dB!

Relative to what?

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Jeff Layman

2024-08-26 11:31:17 UTC

Post by Liz Tuddenham
[...]

Post by Jeff Layman
From the information these wind turbine sellers provide it looks looks
really good - only 35 dB!

Relative to what?

According to the caption in the second link "...35–45 decibels when
adjusted to correspond to the hearing threshold of the human ear (also
known as A-weighted decibels or dBA)."

--
Jeff

Liz Tuddenham

2024-08-26 12:25:05 UTC

Post by Liz Tuddenham
[...]

Post by Jeff Layman
From the information these wind turbine sellers provide it looks looks
really good - only 35 dB!

Relative to what?

According to the caption in the second link "...35â"45 decibels when
adjusted to correspond to the hearing threshold of the human ear (also
known as A-weighted decibels or dBA)."

If they hadn't specified that, they could have got away with almost any
noise level. In some cases, dB(C) is more useful if the noise contains
a lot of low frequencies. For non-electronic music, the dB(C) reading
is generally about 10dB higher than the dB(A) reading.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Jan Panteltje

2024-08-26 10:22:15 UTC

On a sunny day (Mon, 26 Aug 2024 08:49:18 +0100) it happened Jeff Layman

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...

We have a built-in ladder that accesses our flat roof from the bedroom
deck. After that, we could walk almost the entire block on peoples'
roofs.

Isn't that also a means of access for the criminal fraternity?

Does residential wind power make any sense?

Interesting site., seems cheap.. downloaded their 'book', will have a read.
And located in Belgium.. EU
400 euro / dollars for a 10 kW setup...

Post by Jeff Layman
See the same graph at <https://windexchange.energy.gov/projects/sound>,
and you'll see that states the sound level is the same. BUT it also
notes in the caption under the graph "At 300 meters away, which is the
nearest distance a wind turbine typically is to a building, the sounds
produced by a large wind energy project range from 35â45 decibels..."
So as long as you're 300 metres (1000ft) from the domestic turbine the
sound level shouldn't bother you. How many urban or even suburban areas
do you know where the 300m distance is likely?
--
Jeff

Jan Panteltje

2024-08-30 07:07:12 UTC

On a sunny day (Mon, 26 Aug 2024 08:49:18 +0100) it happened Jeff Layman

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...

We have a built-in ladder that accesses our flat roof from the bedroom
deck. After that, we could walk almost the entire block on peoples'
roofs.

Isn't that also a means of access for the criminal fraternity?

Does residential wind power make any sense?

Interesting site., seems cheap.. downloaded their 'book', will have a read.
And located in Belgium.. EU
400 euro / dollars for a 10 kW setup...

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-25 16:19:44 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

ALL modern cell phones use LiPo pocket cells. If your cell phone has
a shoulder strap and is quite heavy, it might be Lithium-Ion. However,
if your cell phone battery is small, flat, and cannot be removed, it's
a LiPo pocket cell. Same with a variety of battery powered
rechargeable devices (Bluetooth speakers, recent rechargeable TV
remote controls, drones, RC toys, walkie-talkies, COB-LED flashlights,
etc).

"10 Dangerous Lipo Battery Mistakes - Fire and explosion causes"

Good advice.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Storms here, maybe I should get a wind powered generator
may need a building permit ....

Wind turbine generators usually have a means of "feathering" the
turbine blades to prevent spinning to fast. The last thing you want a
turbine to do is free-wheel above its maximum RPM rating and launch a
blade through your roof.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Solar panels I have, some flexible ones too for on a boat.
I have never had a phone on fire....

No phone fires, but we had a dumpster fire at my former office that
was started by a cell phone "battery bank". This was an early model
that used Li-Ion cylindrical cells (not LiPo). There have also been
three(?) eBike fires, which also use Li-Ion cylindrical cells with the
added bonus of a home made battery packs and chargers. I'm not
including the local idiot who decided that only save way to dispose of
a cordless tool battery pack was by first drilling holes in it.

For your amusement, this is a clone Ryobi OP4060 cordless tool battery
purchased on eBay(?):
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/S35ScvADzdoM22gFA>
Notice that it use two different (mismatched) Li-Ion cell types, the
thermistor is not glued to a cell, one of the FETs melted, and the
"fuse" didn't blow. I inherited three of these from a customer after
he replaced them with OEM batteries. There was no fire. I could
repair the packs, but instead, I'll probably scavenge the cells and
use them something else such as flashlights.

According to what I've read, the danger comes from the vapors produced
by overheated electrolyte. The most common type is a Lithium salt and
an organic solvent mixture. I would expect that some of this vapor
might be detectable by a hydrocarbon gas detector such as a VoC
(volatile organic compound) gas detector.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=voc+gas+detector&udm=2>
I haven't done anything with this idea yet, but it's on my "yet
another project" list.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-25 16:28:14 UTC

Post by Jeff Liebermann
ALL modern cell phones use LiPo pocket cells.

Oops. That should be a LiPo pouch cell.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jan Panteltje

2024-08-26 06:10:52 UTC

On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:19:44 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened

So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
carrying one.

ALL modern cell phones use LiPo pocket cells. If your cell phone has
a shoulder strap and is quite heavy, it might be Lithium-Ion. However,
if your cell phone battery is small, flat, and cannot be removed, it's
a LiPo pocket cell. Same with a variety of battery powered
rechargeable devices (Bluetooth speakers, recent rechargeable TV
remote controls, drones, RC toys, walkie-talkies, COB-LED flashlights,
etc).
"10 Dangerous Lipo Battery Mistakes - Fire and explosion causes"
http://youtu.be/JrlLe6PRhyo
Good advice.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Storms here, maybe I should get a wind powered generator
may need a building permit ....

Post by Jan Panteltje
Solar panels I have, some flexible ones too for on a boat.
I have never had a phone on fire....

Yes, much can go wrong, good thing it did not catch fire.

Post by Jeff Liebermann
I inherited three of these from a customer after
he replaced them with OEM batteries. There was no fire. I could
repair the packs, but instead, I'll probably scavenge the cells and
use them something else such as flashlights.
According to what I've read, the danger comes from the vapors produced
by overheated electrolyte. The most common type is a Lithium salt and
an organic solvent mixture. I would expect that some of this vapor
might be detectable by a hydrocarbon gas detector such as a VoC
(volatile organic compound) gas detector.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=voc+gas+detector&udm=2>
I haven't done anything with this idea yet, but it's on my "yet
another project" list.

Sensors is interesting,
https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/sensors
I have some of those MQ gas sensors, some are sensitive to many different gasses
https://www.tinytronics.nl/index.php?route=product/search&search=MQ%20sensor

The MQ4 I have on POE ethernet does detect combustable gasses:
https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-4-gas-sensor-module

The MQ7 I have on an other POE ethernet module detects carbon monoxide:
https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-7-gas-sensor-module

I also have a nice CO2 sensor from ebay:
Loading Image...

Loading Image...

So much to play with, you may get false alarm on the MQ7 if you use any alcohol ..

john larkin

2024-08-26 15:36:26 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
Electric vehicle battery fires - what to know and how to react
It's very rare, but lithium-ion batteries in electric vehicles can catch fire.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/08/electric-vehicle-battery-fires-what-to-know-and-how-to-react/
Good to know how to react when you electric car is on fire...

I used to work with a fire alarm company in New Jersey. I designed
next-gen fire systems for high-rise buildings in Manhattan.

They had a sign on the wall that anticipated Lithium batteries:

IN CASE OF FIRE

RUN, YELL "FIRE"

Jan Panteltje

2024-08-27 05:31:55 UTC

On a sunny day (Mon, 26 Aug 2024 08:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin