OT: central limit theorem

[bitrex]

I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
electronics books:

<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>

I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.

A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs
+/- 2 lbs.

So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5-
10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

[Don Y]

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The assembly
manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed which seemed like
an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on the shelves, which aren't
particularly well organized other than to fully fill the available space
widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and skinny, some
are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs +/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up then
remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5- 10 lbs
because it's unsupported by a backing.

Smarter move is to buy all of your texts in electronic form, before you
end up with a shitload of dead trees!

When I moved here (~30 yrs), I had some 80 "Xerox Paper" cartons full
of paperbacks -- not counting "text books". (I read ~500pp/wk) Take
a moment to think of that volume (let alone MASS!).

I eventually scanned everything with a Perfect Binding and now fit those
same books on a single microSD card (in a Nook; PDFs on a 12" tablet).

The "hard back" texts are a lot harder to "process" but are suffering the
same fate. I wouldn't wish the task of MOVING (or disposing!) the
dead tree collection on my worst enemy...

[bitrex]

Post by Don Y

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33
lbs +/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe
5- 10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

Smarter move is to buy all of your texts in electronic form, before you
end up with a shitload of dead trees!
When I moved here (~30 yrs), I had some 80 "Xerox Paper" cartons full
of paperbacks -- not counting "text books".  (I read ~500pp/wk)  Take
a moment to think of that volume (let alone MASS!).
I eventually scanned everything with a Perfect Binding and now fit those
same books on a single microSD card (in a Nook; PDFs on a 12" tablet).

PDFs are a dreadful format! Maybe there's a high-end e-ink that
processes them effectively but they look like shit on the cheaper ones
like most of the Kindles with e-ink displays.

I hate reading on an LCD I stare into an LCD half the live long day
anyway, blech.

Post by Don Y
The "hard back" texts are a lot harder to "process" but are suffering the
same fate.  I wouldn't wish the task of MOVING (or disposing!) the
dead tree collection on my worst enemy...

Gotta enforce a one book in, one book out rule man. I've never lived on
my own in a residence spacious enough that I had the luxury of just
stockpiling tons of stuff in case it might come in handy someday. I
don't have an attic, garage, or basement!

[Don Y]

Post by Don Y

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed which
seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on the shelves,
which aren't particularly well organized other than to fully fill the
available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and skinny,
some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs +/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up then
remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5- 10 lbs
because it's unsupported by a backing.

Smarter move is to buy all of your texts in electronic form, before you
end up with a shitload of dead trees!
When I moved here (~30 yrs), I had some 80 "Xerox Paper" cartons full
of paperbacks -- not counting "text books".  (I read ~500pp/wk)  Take
a moment to think of that volume (let alone MASS!).
I eventually scanned everything with a Perfect Binding and now fit those
same books on a single microSD card (in a Nook; PDFs on a 12" tablet).

PDFs are a dreadful format! Maybe there's a high-end e-ink that processes them
effectively but they look like shit on the cheaper ones like most of the
Kindles with e-ink displays.

PDFs make sense for content where presentation needs to be controlled.
E.g., technical papers, reference books, etc.

Other "reflowable" formats (epub, mobi, etc.) are better suited for
content whose presentation is unimportant -- novels.

Novels can, thus, be viewed on smaller screens as you can reflow
the content to fit the smaller screen regardless of typeface size, etc.

PDFs need larger presentations; you want to mimic the "sheet of paper"
on which it was "laid out". Hence the 12" tablet (14" would be better)

I hate reading on an LCD I stare into an LCD half the live long day anyway, blech.

I used to hate the non-book feel of ebooks. But, now prefer the increased
(and adjustable!) contrast that an ereader offers. Along with the ability
to adjust the size of the type, create bookmarks, search for content, etc.
Thumbing through pages is *SO* 1960's...

Post by Don Y
The "hard back" texts are a lot harder to "process" but are suffering the
same fate.  I wouldn't wish the task of MOVING (or disposing!) the
dead tree collection on my worst enemy...

Gotta enforce a one book in, one book out rule man.

And, how *many* books before that rule kicks in? Do you rely on your
memory to retain the information that was contained in those discarded
books? Or, do you reacquire them (and discard some OTHER content to
accommodate them)?

I've never lived on my own
in a residence spacious enough that I had the luxury of just stockpiling tons
of stuff in case it might come in handy someday. I don't have an attic, garage,
or basement!

You decide what is important to you. I can fit my "wardrobe" in a single
suitcase. And, as travel is somewhere down with "going to the dentist"
in terms of desirability, I only *own* one suitcase! No closet full of
"travel boxes" to store in case I might want to go somewhere (I've never
needed more than a large briefcase to hold my clothing AND "work"
while traveling)

My music is on microSD cards (save for a few dozen boots that I have yet to
transcode) in a few different "players". Likewise, my books. These are
*references*, you expect to "consult them" -- yet can't predict WHEN you
will want to do so. I listened to "Billy, the Mountain", yesterday.
Had I discarded it after hearing it ONCE, I would have had to reacquire
it each of the times that I've subsequently listened to it.

We (re)watch several movies, many times (RED, 9, Flushed Away, etc.).
Should I spend time trying to locate a new copy of each WHEN we want
to rewatch it (and pay for immediately delivery)?

Should I buy a new set of crow-foot wrenches each time I need one?
(Imagine how much longer it would take to make repairs!)

And, buy paper for the printer one *sheet* at a time?

"Stockpiling" is a physical cache of items that YOU decide are
worth having "on-hand" -- to save the time of re-acquiring them,
WHEN NEEDED.

[a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl]

Post by bitrex

Post by Don Y

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33
lbs +/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe
5- 10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

Smarter move is to buy all of your texts in electronic form, before you
end up with a shitload of dead trees!
When I moved here (~30 yrs), I had some 80 "Xerox Paper" cartons full
of paperbacks -- not counting "text books".  (I read ~500pp/wk)  Take
a moment to think of that volume (let alone MASS!).
I eventually scanned everything with a Perfect Binding and now fit those
same books on a single microSD card (in a Nook; PDFs on a 12" tablet).

PDFs are a dreadful format! Maybe there's a high-end e-ink that
processes them effectively but they look like shit on the cheaper ones
like most of the Kindles with e-ink displays.

PDF's are fearful. It is under control of one company, Adobe.
It is changed without notice. I regret the change away from PostScript
that at least was defined.

Groetjes Albert

[John Larkin]

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl

Post by bitrex

Post by Don Y

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33
lbs +/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe
5- 10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

Smarter move is to buy all of your texts in electronic form, before you
end up with a shitload of dead trees!
When I moved here (~30 yrs), I had some 80 "Xerox Paper" cartons full
of paperbacks -- not counting "text books".  (I read ~500pp/wk)  Take
a moment to think of that volume (let alone MASS!).
I eventually scanned everything with a Perfect Binding and now fit those
same books on a single microSD card (in a Nook; PDFs on a 12" tablet).

PDFs are a dreadful format! Maybe there's a high-end e-ink that
processes them effectively but they look like shit on the cheaper ones
like most of the Kindles with e-ink displays.

PDF's are fearful. It is under control of one company, Adobe.
It is changed without notice. I regret the change away from PostScript
that at least was defined.
Groetjes Albert

I don't run any Adobe software. I run several programs that export
PDFs, and a viewer/virtual printer program handles the rest. Firefox
will view PDFs too.

PDFs look good and are a good way to deliver manuals and such.

[a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl]

Post by John Larkin

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl

Post by bitrex

Post by Don Y

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33
lbs +/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe
5- 10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

Smarter move is to buy all of your texts in electronic form, before you
end up with a shitload of dead trees!
When I moved here (~30 yrs), I had some 80 "Xerox Paper" cartons full
of paperbacks -- not counting "text books".  (I read ~500pp/wk)  Take
a moment to think of that volume (let alone MASS!).
I eventually scanned everything with a Perfect Binding and now fit those
same books on a single microSD card (in a Nook; PDFs on a 12" tablet).

PDFs are a dreadful format! Maybe there's a high-end e-ink that
processes them effectively but they look like shit on the cheaper ones
like most of the Kindles with e-ink displays.

PDF's are fearful. It is under control of one company, Adobe.
It is changed without notice. I regret the change away from PostScript
that at least was defined.
Groetjes Albert

I don't run any Adobe software. I run several programs that export
PDFs, and a viewer/virtual printer program handles the rest. Firefox
will view PDFs too.
PDFs look good and are a good way to deliver manuals and such.

I looked into it. It complies to an ISO standard, ISO 32000.
At least it is open. You can even have a copy for free.
You must log in, and your copy is watermarked,
Adobe has probably a great say in how this standard evolves,
but at least it is open.

So PDF is not as bad as I surmised. I concede your point,
looking good, easy to comprehend, is a priority for a manual.

Groetjes Albert

[Don Y]

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl

Post by bitrex

Post by Don Y
I eventually scanned everything with a Perfect Binding and now fit those
same books on a single microSD card (in a Nook; PDFs on a 12" tablet).

PDFs are a dreadful format! Maybe there's a high-end e-ink that
processes them effectively but they look like shit on the cheaper ones
like most of the Kindles with e-ink displays.

PDF's are fearful. It is under control of one company, Adobe.
It is changed without notice. I regret the change away from PostScript
that at least was defined.

How is this any different than other file formats "controlled" by their
originators? MS can't even access THEIR older versions of THEIR format.
I have PCB layout tools that can't read THEIR earlier (one version)
files, etc.

You can find other PDF tools (including FOSS) to support the BASIC
functionality of PDF documents. Whether or not those tools will
support embedded script, etc. is something that few documents
really exploit (so, safe to ignore, in most cases)

You could always render your document to a TIFF (and then encapsulate it
in a PDF!), losing the textual nature in the process...

[a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl]

Post by Don Y

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl

Post by bitrex

Post by Don Y
I eventually scanned everything with a Perfect Binding and now fit those
same books on a single microSD card (in a Nook; PDFs on a 12" tablet).

PDFs are a dreadful format! Maybe there's a high-end e-ink that
processes them effectively but they look like shit on the cheaper ones
like most of the Kindles with e-ink displays.

PDF's are fearful. It is under control of one company, Adobe.
It is changed without notice. I regret the change away from PostScript
that at least was defined.

How is this any different than other file formats "controlled" by their
originators? MS can't even access THEIR older versions of THEIR format.
I have PCB layout tools that can't read THEIR earlier (one version)
files, etc.

PDF is better that WORD. See my other response.

Post by Don Y
You could always render your document to a TIFF (and then encapsulate it
in a PDF!), losing the textual nature in the process...

What? That is stupid. I don't go for the looks.
OTOH convert a pdf document into UTF8 rather than a graphical
format.

I'm writing a program to read TIFF's in behalf of ocr.
In TIFF there are several compression schemes that are possible, e.g.
one of those is the black and white Fax machines. TIFF is worse than
PDF, and you couldn't search it for text content.

Groetjes Albert

[Don Y]

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl

Post by Don Y

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl

Post by bitrex

Post by Don Y
I eventually scanned everything with a Perfect Binding and now fit those
same books on a single microSD card (in a Nook; PDFs on a 12" tablet).

PDFs are a dreadful format! Maybe there's a high-end e-ink that
processes them effectively but they look like shit on the cheaper ones
like most of the Kindles with e-ink displays.

PDF's are fearful. It is under control of one company, Adobe.
It is changed without notice. I regret the change away from PostScript
that at least was defined.

How is this any different than other file formats "controlled" by their
originators? MS can't even access THEIR older versions of THEIR format.
I have PCB layout tools that can't read THEIR earlier (one version)
files, etc.

PDF is better that WORD. See my other response.

PDF is somewhat open and stable. Most other formats are closed and
subject tot he whims of their creators/owners.

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl

Post by Don Y
You could always render your document to a TIFF (and then encapsulate it
in a PDF!), losing the textual nature in the process...

What? That is stupid. I don't go for the looks.

PDF is ALL about the page layout. If all you care about is the *content*
(and not the format/layout), then you could use HTML to encapsulate
the document (assuming you have other media besides just "ASCII text")

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl
OTOH convert a pdf document into UTF8 rather than a graphical
format.

There are tools that will make these conversions (scanned images OCRed,
PDF/PS to text, etc.). But, you lose all of the non-text content.

I use PDFs as a versatile container format that lets me show content
exactly how I want it presented, include graphics, audio, video/animation,
etc. I can describe a piece of code and "attach" the code to the explanation
(without having to "include" all of that text IN the presentation).

How do I -- in prose -- describe the different audio characteristics
of speech created with two different glottal waveform generators?
And, be reasonably sure that the reader truly understands the (audible)
pros and cons of each.

Or, illustrate which classes of cubic beziers exhibit discontinuities?
Which have degenerate forms? You can describe these mathematically... but,
it is far simpler to just SHOW them, graphically.

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl
I'm writing a program to read TIFF's in behalf of ocr.

There are tools that will already do this for you. You can have an
invisible "text" layer that sits "under" the corresponding TIFF imagery
in a PDF. These are funky documents to use as selecting text based on
the *visible* imagery actually highlights the regions occupied by the
INvisible text. So, highlighting "these words" may actually show
"these words ma" as highlighted -- even though pasting that selection
will deliver the expected results! :< WYSInWYG!

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl
In TIFF there are several compression schemes that are possible, e.g.

You can also render to different pixel depths - 1, 4, 16, etc. I created
some documents with a *2* bit pixel representation (which seemed "legal"
per the definition of the TIF format) but were not recognized by most tools
available, at that time. So, I had to "inflate" them to a 4b representation
in order to render them.

Post by a***@spenarnc.xs4all.nl
one of those is the black and white Fax machines. TIFF is worse than
PDF, and you couldn't search it for text content.

You use TIFF as a semi-photographic rendering of the page. I often
request technical documents from my local public library. Invariably,
these are *FAXed* to the library. Then, printed for delivery to me.

So, the original document was scanned (at some resolution), FAXed
(with some potential for resampling in the FAX software), printed
(yet another resolution/resampling) and, finally, *I* scan it (so
I don't have to keep track of piles of paper) in yet another
resampling.

OTOH, I end up with a readable document, including any illustrations
that it may have had (often, color -- and greyscale -- is stripped
in the processing). This is far preferable to a searchable document
that I *don't* have! :-/

(File names for documents are really important. Folks who deliver documents
with names like C484915.pdf should be flogged and then shot! Are they
hosting those documents on an MSDOS FAT12 filesystem that can't handle
long DESCRIPTIVE file names????)

[Joe Gwinn]

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs
+/- 2 lbs.

Ikea shelves are made of veneered particle board, and can creep under
steady load. Is it possible to flip the shelf planks upside down, so
they start to creep back towards straight?

Post by bitrex
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5-
10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

If the shelf plank material is creeping, this won't work.

Joe Gwinn

[bitrex]

Post by Joe Gwinn

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs
+/- 2 lbs.

Ikea shelves are made of veneered particle board, and can creep under
steady load. Is it possible to flip the shelf planks upside down, so
they start to creep back towards straight?

Yep! The shelves aren't symmetrical front to back, but they are
side-to-side.

Post by Joe Gwinn

Post by bitrex
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5-
10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

If the shelf plank material is creeping, this won't work.
Joe Gwinn

[Phil Hobbs]

Post by Joe Gwinn

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs
+/- 2 lbs.

Ikea shelves are made of veneered particle board, and can creep under
steady load. Is it possible to flip the shelf planks upside down, so
they start to creep back towards straight?

Post by bitrex
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5-
10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

If the shelf plank material is creeping, this won't work.
Joe Gwinn

The OP might want to upgrade to Ivar shelves. I’ve got probably a dozen
sections, 7 feet tall, and Ikea still sells them, I think.

Inexpensive, solid wood, good looking, super strong, and last forever.

Otherwise they stink.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

[bitrex]

Post by Phil Hobbs

Post by Joe Gwinn

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs
+/- 2 lbs.

Ikea shelves are made of veneered particle board, and can creep under
steady load.  Is it possible to flip the shelf planks upside down, so
they start to creep back towards straight?

Post by bitrex
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5-
10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

If the shelf plank material is creeping, this won't work.
Joe Gwinn

The OP might want to upgrade to Ivar shelves. I’ve got probably a dozen
sections, 7 feet tall, and Ikea still sells them, I think.
Inexpensive, solid wood, good looking, super strong, and last forever.
Otherwise they stink.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs

My GF and I share some floor space in a spare room for our "library" and
while these seem pretty sturdy for my GF's paperbacks, for texts like
AoE III and the like a bit lacking. I'm definitely going to suggest an
upgrade and/or swapperooni.

I have the Ikea Bror system for my workspace:

<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/cat/bror-system-42245/>

which synergizes great with an electrically-adjustable worktable with a
high lift; allows full access to top and bottom storage with a minimum
of crouching.

[John Larkin]

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs
+/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5-
10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

Composites, like the Ikea particle board, tend to sag. I got a nice
barbeque table where the propane tank can sit on the lower shelf, but
in a matter of days it took on a serous sag. It's some plastic
composite.

Like many things that one buys these days, the first thing is to
redesign it.

Add a center support of some kind.

[bitrex]

Post by John Larkin

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs
+/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5-
10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

Composites, like the Ikea particle board, tend to sag. I got a nice
barbeque table where the propane tank can sit on the lower shelf, but
in a matter of days it took on a serous sag. It's some plastic
composite.
Like many things that one buys these days, the first thing is to
redesign it.
Add a center support of some kind.

Ikea has made a number of nightstands over the years that for whatever
reason seem to have openings very close to 19", add a couple Middle
Atlantic rack rails and you can house all sorts of gear in them:

<https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/16kdewm/ikea_nightstand_makes_a_great_rack/>

[bitrex]

Post by John Larkin

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs
+/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5-
10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

Composites, like the Ikea particle board, tend to sag. I got a nice
barbeque table where the propane tank can sit on the lower shelf, but
in a matter of days it took on a serous sag. It's some plastic
composite.
Like many things that one buys these days, the first thing is to
redesign it.
Add a center support of some kind.

They definitely have the "manufacturing" down to a science, though. I've
assembled a number of their flat-packs over the years and I can't recall
one that was ever short a part, or conversely, contained a single spare
part.

Did Heathkit provide spares with their kits? Well, guess we know why
they're out of business..

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Apr 2024 14:46:52 -0400) it happened bitrex

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs
+/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5-
10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

Digitise as many books as you can, some books are already available for free as pdf on the internet.
That thing looks feeble.. buy a real bookshelf
All that said, the Ikea table I am working on now is from around 1986?
Loading Image...

I use this Ikea chair for some electronics work and when playing the keyboard :-)
https://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/p/kullaberg-bureaustoel-grenen-zwart-10320341/
They do make nice stuff.

Have not many books left, but more than a thousand discs like CDs, DVDs, blurays.., lots of data on those.
Loading Image...

Some 4 TB harddisks, 'locate' in Linux will find anything in seconds, weight a few grams...
locate -i book | grep -i pdf
....
/mnt/sda2/pantel/root/download/html/gps_ca_generation_code_program_and_more_booktext05.pdf
/mnt/sda2/pantel/root/download/html/imbookfinalall.pdf
/mnt/sda2/pantel/root/download/html/mit_heat_transfer_textbook_ahttv131.pdf
/mnt/sda2/pantel/root/download/html/national_temp_sensor_handbook.pdf
/mnt/sda2/pantel/root/download/html/on_semi_pfc_handbook_HBD853-D.PDF
/mnt/sda2/pantel/root/download/html/pin_diode_handbook.pdf
/mnt/sda2/pantel/root/download/html/pin_diode_handbook.pdf.1
/mnt/sda2/pantel/root/download/html/pin_diode_handbook.pdf.2
/mnt/sda2/pantel/root/download/html/power_factor_correction_handbook_PFC_HBD853-D.PDF
/mnt/sda2/pantel/root/download/html/radiation/photo_detectors/PMTs/PMT_handbook_v3aE.pdf... 181 entries
....
Not everything is marked as 'book', but subject you will find !

Soon everything encoded in DNA, just injected... ?

[Bill Sloman]

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.
A random assortment of hardbacks and paperbacks, some are tall and
skinny, some are short and fat. And each shelf was clocking in at 33 lbs
+/- 2 lbs.
So I guess a heuristic for filling these shelves is just fill 'em up
then remove the heaviest book, and de-rate the center shelf by maybe 5-
10 lbs because it's unsupported by a backing.

Or put on a backing sheet and knock some nails through the backing sheet
into the shelves. It isn't elegant. I've built bookcases where I've
rebated the frame so that the backing sheet didn't show when viewed from
the side, but my wife thought that this was more trouble than it was worth.

We owned a lot of books and the default bookshelf was mounted on
brackets screwed into plugs let into the wall. I'd had a masonry drill
even before we got married.

My great-grandfather would have been scandalised. I've now got the
glass-fronted bookcase he built to complete his joinery apprenticeship
some 150 years ago, and it is much more elegant piece of work.

[Martin Brown]

Post by bitrex
I have one of these inexpensive Ikea bookshelves for storing some of my
<https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/laiva-bookcase-black-brown-40178591/>
I noticed the center shelf was starting to sag a few degrees. :( The
assembly manual specifies a weight limit of 33 lbs evenly distributed
which seemed like an oddly specific number. So I weighed the books on
the shelves, which aren't particularly well organized other than to
fully fill the available space widthwise on each shelf.

They look a bit weak and feeble to me.

My books are all in Billy bookcases from the same vendor and apart from
them changing the available veneers (discontinuing my favourite cherry)
have never given me any trouble. I overload some of them too!

You can turn the loose shelves over to even out the curve. Not so for
the fixed ones but they have additional support from the back board.