Hackers hope to democratize laser-based processor hacking for $500

Post by Jan Panteltje
Hackers hope to democratize laser-based processor hacking -
a $500 RayV Lite relies on 3D printing, a laser pen, and a Raspberry Pi
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/hackers-hope-

to-democratize-laser-based-processor-hacking-dollar500-rayv-lite-relies-
on-3d-printing-a-laser-pen-and-a-raspberry-pi-to-bring-costs-down#main

Post by Jan Panteltje
Nothing is safe:-)
Seems a cool way to bypass security stuff.
Gotta try my laser on a working chip.

A lot of exceptionally clever people who just spend their whole time
trying to fuck things up for everybody else. Pity they can't turn their
undeniable talents to making the world a better place. Life's hard enough
as it is for most.

Edward Rawde

2024-08-04 18:23:35 UTC

to-democratize-laser-based-processor-hacking-dollar500-rayv-lite-relies-
on-3d-printing-a-laser-pen-and-a-raspberry-pi-to-bring-costs-down#main

A fairly low quality article if you ask me.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Nothing is safe:-)
Seems a cool way to bypass security stuff.
Gotta try my laser on a working chip.

If you can get close enough to get sufficient physical access.
Not a worry to most of us.

Post by Jan Panteltje
A lot of exceptionally clever people who just spend their whole time
trying to fuck things up for everybody else.

If no-one did that, everything would be as fucked up as Windows 3.0/3.1/95

Post by Jan Panteltje
Pity they can't turn their
undeniable talents to making the world a better place.

In this context, making the world a better place requires demonstating to hardware/software vendors that they can't just cobble
something together and hope it's secure.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Life's hard enough
as it is for most.

Don Y

2024-08-04 20:12:49 UTC

Post by Edward Rawde
In this context, making the world a better place requires demonstating to
hardware/software vendors that they can't just cobble something together and
hope it's secure.

I suspect very few people have ever played RED/BLUE games in their careers
(or in academia).

You actually need to be *tasked* with "breaking something" in order to
see all of its warts.

Developers always make assumptions about how their products will be used
and the sorts of "misuse" they THINK they need to guard against. But,
users (and ABusers) aren't bound by those delusions. So, when a
product encounters something out-of-the-ordinary, it often shits the
bed. If you can convince it to shit the bed in a manner that can be
exploited... <grin>

Remember, YOU likely have addition limits imposed on what YOU would
subject YOUR device to; there is nothing that forces someone else to
similarly restrain themselves!

So, you have to EXPLICITLY enforce any limitations in your hardware/software
if you want to be SURE they won't be subverted (by an adversary or a sloppy
developer!)

Don Y

2024-08-04 20:29:22 UTC

Post by Don Y
Remember, YOU likely have addition limits imposed on what YOU would
subject YOUR device to; there is nothing that forces someone else to
similarly restrain themselves!

Great little exercise to illustrate this:
- pretend you are locked out of your house; how do you get in?
- pretend you are locked out of a SHELTER; how do you get it?
- pretend you are locked out of your "enemy's" house...

Note that the lengths to which you would go in each case tend
to be ever increasing.

What's more interesting is the *likely* fact that you can get
into YOUR house without doing any physical damage (a constraint
that others likely wouldn't observe)

Jan Panteltje

2024-08-05 04:56:57 UTC

On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Aug 2024 14:23:35 -0400) it happened "Edward Rawde"

to-democratize-laser-based-processor-hacking-dollar500-rayv-lite-relies-
on-3d-printing-a-laser-pen-and-a-raspberry-pi-to-bring-costs-down#main

A fairly low quality article if you ask me.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Nothing is safe:-)
Seems a cool way to bypass security stuff.
Gotta try my laser on a working chip.

If you can get close enough to get sufficient physical access.
Not a worry to most of us.

I remember my hacking days, pay-TV cards was the thing those days,
getting the encryption algo used was the target.
Some country with the right equipment (or spies?) got it... And published it,
on Usenet yes.
That is how I started with Microchip PICs, those were in the cards.
Then somebody (was it me? ;-) ) made a server that decoded for everybody in real time so you
no longer needed the cards, just got the (ever changing key) from that server.
Those guys got arrested ...
All Linux and open source.
alt.satellite.tv.europe ..

Nothing is safe ..

There are more fun things, I was reading somewhere yesterday that
for secret communication in UK submarines the company that designed the system
was outsourcing coding to Russia or Belarus.., were the coders were.
Now that is hard to believe, but...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/britains-nuclear-submarine-software-designed-russia-belarus/

found via rt.com, do not normally read the telegraph
Maybe I should...
Could also be just creating commie fear, but still..
https://www.rt.com/news/602089-uk-submarines-russian-software/
if blocked try
89.191.237.192
There is more good info there

Seems all is set up by that US military industrial complex and its puppets for an invasion into Iran,
and a WW3.
What choice does US have? Its bankrupt, its IQ is single digits,
an now like 'enlist everybody to serve Uncle Sam'
enlist everybody to serve Chameleon Harassment
Auntie Kamala ?

Well what is left will radiate..

Bill Sloman

2024-08-05 15:31:00 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Aug 2024 14:23:35 -0400) it happened "Edward Rawde"

to-democratize-laser-based-processor-hacking-dollar500-rayv-lite-relies-
on-3d-printing-a-laser-pen-and-a-raspberry-pi-to-bring-costs-down#main

A fairly low quality article if you ask me.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Nothing is safe:-)
Seems a cool way to bypass security stuff.
Gotta try my laser on a working chip.

If you can get close enough to get sufficient physical access.
Not a worry to most of us.

I remember my hacking days, pay-TV cards was the thing those days,
getting the encryption algo used was the target.
Some country with the right equipment (or spies?) got it... And published it,
on Usenet yes.
That is how I started with Microchip PICs, those were in the cards.
Then somebody (was it me? ;-) ) made a server that decoded for everybody in real time so you
no longer needed the cards, just got the (ever changing key) from that server.
Those guys got arrested ...
All Linux and open source.
alt.satellite.tv.europe ..
Nothing is safe ..
There are more fun things, I was reading somewhere yesterday that
for secret communication in UK submarines the company that designed the system
was outsourcing coding to Russia or Belarus.., were the coders were.
Now that is hard to believe, but...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/britains-nuclear-submarine-software-designed-russia-belarus/
found via rt.com, do not normally read the telegraph
Maybe I should...
Could also be just creating commie fear, but still..
https://www.rt.com/news/602089-uk-submarines-russian-software/
if blocked try
89.191.237.192
There is more good info there

Probably not. The Daily Telegraph is about as closely connected to
reality as Russia Today.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Seems all is set up by that US military industrial complex and its puppets for an invasion into Iran,
and a WW3.

Why on earth would the US want to invade Iran? The ayatollahs of Iran
are wrecking their country quite as effectively as the religious right
is wrecking America.

Post by Jan Panteltje
What choice does US have? Its bankrupt, its IQ is single digits,
an now like 'enlist everybody to serve Uncle Sam'
enlist everybody to serve Chameleon Harassment
Auntie Kamala ?
Well what is left will radiate..

Probably not. Getting a nuclear weapon to actually explode needs more
than a single digit IQ.

The Americans rely on John Larkin's laser timing hardware for their
Nuclear Ignition Facility.

Unsurprisingly, the results are erratic. John Larkin thinks that Donald
Trump has "common sense". One has to wonder how the Ayatollahs selected
their hardware experts, and what absurd things they insisted they
believe before they let them work on their nuclear weapons.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Norton antivirus software.
www.norton.com

John Larkin

2024-08-05 23:46:51 UTC

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Aug 2024 14:23:35 -0400) it happened "Edward Rawde"

to-democratize-laser-based-processor-hacking-dollar500-rayv-lite-relies-
on-3d-printing-a-laser-pen-and-a-raspberry-pi-to-bring-costs-down#main

A fairly low quality article if you ask me.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Nothing is safe:-)
Seems a cool way to bypass security stuff.
Gotta try my laser on a working chip.

If you can get close enough to get sufficient physical access.
Not a worry to most of us.

I remember my hacking days, pay-TV cards was the thing those days,
getting the encryption algo used was the target.
Some country with the right equipment (or spies?) got it... And published it,
on Usenet yes.
That is how I started with Microchip PICs, those were in the cards.
Then somebody (was it me? ;-) ) made a server that decoded for everybody in real time so you
no longer needed the cards, just got the (ever changing key) from that server.
Those guys got arrested ...
All Linux and open source.
alt.satellite.tv.europe ..
Nothing is safe ..
There are more fun things, I was reading somewhere yesterday that
for secret communication in UK submarines the company that designed the system
was outsourcing coding to Russia or Belarus.., were the coders were.
Now that is hard to believe, but...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/britains-nuclear-submarine-software-designed-russia-belarus/
found via rt.com, do not normally read the telegraph
Maybe I should...
Could also be just creating commie fear, but still..
https://www.rt.com/news/602089-uk-submarines-russian-software/
if blocked try
89.191.237.192
There is more good info there

Probably not. The Daily Telegraph is about as closely connected to
reality as Russia Today.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Seems all is set up by that US military industrial complex and its puppets for an invasion into Iran,
and a WW3.

Why on earth would the US want to invade Iran? The ayatollahs of Iran
are wrecking their country quite as effectively as the religious right
is wrecking America.

Probably not. Getting a nuclear weapon to actually explode needs more
than a single digit IQ.
The Americans rely on John Larkin's laser timing hardware for their
Nuclear Ignition Facility.

The real tragedy is that the 192 big lasers are modulated in quads,
groups of four, so we only got to sell 48 modulator chassis, plus some
spares.

Bill Sloman

2024-08-06 07:06:09 UTC

Post by John Larkin

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Aug 2024 14:23:35 -0400) it happened "Edward Rawde"

to-democratize-laser-based-processor-hacking-dollar500-rayv-lite-relies-
on-3d-printing-a-laser-pen-and-a-raspberry-pi-to-bring-costs-down#main

A fairly low quality article if you ask me.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Nothing is safe:-)
Seems a cool way to bypass security stuff.
Gotta try my laser on a working chip.

If you can get close enough to get sufficient physical access.
Not a worry to most of us.

I remember my hacking days, pay-TV cards was the thing those days,
getting the encryption algo used was the target.
Some country with the right equipment (or spies?) got it... And published it,
on Usenet yes.
That is how I started with Microchip PICs, those were in the cards.
Then somebody (was it me? ;-) ) made a server that decoded for everybody in real time so you
no longer needed the cards, just got the (ever changing key) from that server.
Those guys got arrested ...
All Linux and open source.
alt.satellite.tv.europe ..
Nothing is safe ..
There are more fun things, I was reading somewhere yesterday that
for secret communication in UK submarines the company that designed the system
was outsourcing coding to Russia or Belarus.., were the coders were.
Now that is hard to believe, but...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/britains-nuclear-submarine-software-designed-russia-belarus/
found via rt.com, do not normally read the telegraph
Maybe I should...
Could also be just creating commie fear, but still..
https://www.rt.com/news/602089-uk-submarines-russian-software/
if blocked try
89.191.237.192
There is more good info there

Probably not. The Daily Telegraph is about as closely connected to
reality as Russia Today.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Seems all is set up by that US military industrial complex and its puppets for an invasion into Iran,
and a WW3.

Why on earth would the US want to invade Iran? The ayatollahs of Iran
are wrecking their country quite as effectively as the religious right
is wrecking America.

Probably not. Getting a nuclear weapon to actually explode needs more
than a single digit IQ.
The Americans rely on John Larkin's laser timing hardware for their
Nuclear Ignition Facility.

John Larkin has made an unmarked snip here, which took out the bit the post
that should have made it clear that this was part of an absurd proposition
that I was using to send up Jan Panteltje.

Post by John Larkin
The real tragedy is that the 192 big lasers are modulated in quads,
groups of four, so we only got to sell 48 modulator chassis, plus some
spares.

How disappointing. Maybe if you had pirated an even earlier - and even
more inappropriate - Hewlett-Packard concept, they might have bought more.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Norton antivirus software.
www.norton.com

John Larkin

2024-08-04 18:47:58 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
Hackers hope to democratize laser-based processor hacking -
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/hackers-hope-to-democratize-laser-based-processor-hacking-dollar500-rayv-lite-relies-on-3d-printing-a-laser-pen-and-a-raspberry-pi-to-bring-costs-down#main
Nothing is safe:-)
Seems a cool way to bypass security stuff.
Gotta try my laser on a working chip.

Sounds absurd. Decap an expensive chip, set it up to run and analyze
things, then bang one selected 20nm-square fet (out of a billion) with
focussed 600 nm light.

Jan Panteltje

2024-08-05 05:02:24 UTC

On a sunny day (Sun, 04 Aug 2024 11:47:58 -0700) it happened John Larkin

Post by John Larkin

Sounds absurd. Decap an expensive chip, set it up to run and analyze
things, then bang one selected 20nm-square fet (out of a billion) with
focussed 600 nm light.

The way the article goes you just de-activate some checks for some short time
We will see if they publish.
Remote destruction of chips is easy with a strong EM field.

Bill Sloman

2024-08-05 14:24:25 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 04 Aug 2024 11:47:58 -0700) it happened John Larkin

Post by John Larkin

Sounds absurd. Decap an expensive chip, set it up to run and analyze
things, then bang one selected 20nm-square fet (out of a billion) with
focussed 600 nm light.

The way the article goes you just de-activate some checks for some short time

That does seem to be what the author of the article imagines to be on
offer. It seems very unlikely to be something that the toys described
could deliver.

Post by Jan Panteltje
We will see if they publish.
Remote destruction of chips is easy with a strong EM field.

If the electromagnetic field were strong enough to induce destructive
currents in the metal links across the chip this could be correct.

It doesn't seem to be worth doing. Hitting them with a hammer works just
as well, and it is lot cheaper.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Norton antivirus software.
www.norton.com

Bill Sloman

2024-08-05 00:46:15 UTC