China: Government Starts Phasing Out American Processors, Operating Systems on Government Computers

[Here is the News]

https://dailystormer.in/china-government-starts-phasing-out-american-processors-operating-systems-on-government-computers/

China: Government Starts Phasing Out American Processors, Operating Systems
on Government Computers

Snake Baker
March 26, 2024

China has been moving towards digital independence for a while now, with it
having been stated as a main goal of the country.

It looks like they're finally making big steps to phase out American
software and hardware, for the sake of their own security.

It was never safe for the Chinese to rely on Western tech companies for
their survival.

Nordic Times:
https://nordictimes.com/tech/china-bans-us-chips-in-government-computers/

China has issued new national guidelines that will phase out U.S. Intel
and AMD chips from government computers and servers. The guidelines will
also include Microsoft Windows operating systems.
The new guidelines require government agencies above the local level to
include criteria that require "secure and reliable" processors and
operating systems when making purchases, which they say does not include
American processors. The new guidelines mean that chips from Intel and
AMD, for example, will no longer be considered secure in China, according
to the Financial Times.
The guidelines also restrict the use of Microsoft's Windows and other
foreign operating systems. Apple, for example, has already been banned
from several Chinese government agencies and state-owned enterprises.
China's Ministry of Industry issued a statement in late December with
three separate lists of processors, operating systems and central
databases that are considered "secure" for three years from the date of
publication. All were from Chinese companies, Reuters reports. Among other
things, China has built computers with its own Loongson 3A6000 chip, which
is said to be at least as good as Intel's.

The chips work.

They will end up being better than Western chips. After all, the Western
companies that make the chips are really all Chinese companies, based much
more in Taiwan than in California.

Intel is supposedly expanding American production. But it's with money from
the government, so it's a virtual certainty that it is all going to hiring
blacks and training whites that they are evil. There will also, of course,
be pronoun lessons.

Diversity is not cheap. With a mere $8.5 billion, it's unlikely they will
actually get around to making any chips.

[John Larkin]

Post by Here is the News
https://dailystormer.in/china-government-starts-phasing-out-american-processors-operating-systems-on-government-computers/
China: Government Starts Phasing Out American Processors, Operating Systems
on Government Computers
Snake Baker
March 26, 2024
China has been moving towards digital independence for a while now, with it
having been stated as a main goal of the country.
It looks like they're finally making big steps to phase out American
software and hardware, for the sake of their own security.
It was never safe for the Chinese to rely on Western tech companies for
their survival.
https://nordictimes.com/tech/china-bans-us-chips-in-government-computers/

China has issued new national guidelines that will phase out U.S. Intel
and AMD chips from government computers and servers. The guidelines will
also include Microsoft Windows operating systems.
The new guidelines require government agencies above the local level to
include criteria that require "secure and reliable" processors and
operating systems when making purchases, which they say does not include
American processors. The new guidelines mean that chips from Intel and
AMD, for example, will no longer be considered secure in China, according
to the Financial Times.
The guidelines also restrict the use of Microsoft's Windows and other
foreign operating systems. Apple, for example, has already been banned
from several Chinese government agencies and state-owned enterprises.
China's Ministry of Industry issued a statement in late December with
three separate lists of processors, operating systems and central
databases that are considered "secure" for three years from the date of
publication. All were from Chinese companies, Reuters reports. Among other
things, China has built computers with its own Loongson 3A6000 chip, which
is said to be at least as good as Intel's.

It's a MIPS machine, another "Chinese Copy." Three guesses for what
the OS will look like.

Why don't they steal something more modern, like RISC-V?

Post by Here is the News
The chips work.

They will probably send every keystroke back to Party Headquarters.

Post by Here is the News
They will end up being better than Western chips. After all, the Western
companies that make the chips are really all Chinese companies, based much
more in Taiwan than in California.

TSMC fabs what people design. Using mostly western fab equipment.

Are there asian sources for lithography machines? GigaPhoton tried to
compete with Cymer/ASML and mostly failed.

Post by Here is the News
Intel is supposedly expanding American production. But it's with money from
the government, so it's a virtual certainty that it is all going to hiring
blacks and training whites that they are evil. There will also, of course,
be pronoun lessons.
Diversity is not cheap. With a mere $8.5 billion, it's unlikely they will
actually get around to making any chips.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by John Larkin

Post by Here is the News

publication. All were from Chinese companies, Reuters reports. Among other
things, China has built computers with its own Loongson 3A6000 chip, which
is said to be at least as good as Intel's.

It's a MIPS machine, another "Chinese Copy." Three guesses for what
the OS will look like.
Why don't they steal something more modern, like RISC-V?

The Loongson and Sunway processors were developed from Western risc
processors well over a decade ago and a whole lot of engineering have
gone into making them fast. Tha latest Loongson has specmarks nearly
as good as the fastest Intel processor, while being designed on a
process that is two generations behind what Intel is using.

The Chinese are compensating for poorer process engineering by using
better architectural engineering, which is something we could be doing
as well if it was possible to sell non-X86 systems into the US market.

Intel has repeatedly attempted to introduce high performance non-X86
systems over the years with the i860 and i960 (the Itanium2 was not
really Intel's fault as much as HPs but it should get an E for effort),
but they have never been able to get enough sales for the things in
order to afford to be able to put enough engineering into them to get
them up to top speed.

Post by John Larkin

Post by Here is the News
They will end up being better than Western chips. After all, the Western
companies that make the chips are really all Chinese companies, based much
more in Taiwan than in California.

TSMC fabs what people design. Using mostly western fab equipment.
Are there asian sources for lithography machines? GigaPhoton tried to
compete with Cymer/ASML and mostly failed.

Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.
--scott

[John Larkin]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Larkin

publication. All were from Chinese companies, Reuters reports. Among other
things, China has built computers with its own Loongson 3A6000 chip, which
is said to be at least as good as Intel's.

It's a MIPS machine, another "Chinese Copy." Three guesses for what
the OS will look like.
Why don't they steal something more modern, like RISC-V?

The Loongson and Sunway processors were developed from Western risc
processors well over a decade ago and a whole lot of engineering have
gone into making them fast. Tha latest Loongson has specmarks nearly
as good as the fastest Intel processor, while being designed on a
process that is two generations behind what Intel is using.
The Chinese are compensating for poorer process engineering by using
better architectural engineering, which is something we could be doing
as well if it was possible to sell non-X86 systems into the US market.
Intel has repeatedly attempted to introduce high performance non-X86
systems over the years with the i860 and i960 (the Itanium2 was not
really Intel's fault as much as HPs but it should get an E for effort),
but they have never been able to get enough sales for the things in
order to afford to be able to put enough engineering into them to get
them up to top speed.

Intel had an ARM license once too. I think their mindset is fixated on
the klunky 8008 architecture. They used to make it competitive with
advanced fab, but flubbed that too.

Intel spent something like $100 billion on stock buybacks. Their
failed acquisition list is impressive too.

Computing gets ever cheaper, and we don't need unlimited compute power
forever. China is totally driven by The Party, and politicians make
bad technical decisions.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by John Larkin

Post by Scott Dorsey
Intel has repeatedly attempted to introduce high performance non-X86
systems over the years with the i860 and i960 (the Itanium2 was not
really Intel's fault as much as HPs but it should get an E for effort),
but they have never been able to get enough sales for the things in
order to afford to be able to put enough engineering into them to get
them up to top speed.

Intel had an ARM license once too. I think their mindset is fixated on
the klunky 8008 architecture. They used to make it competitive with
advanced fab, but flubbed that too.

They've lost so much money over the years trying to promote x86
replacements that I think they are convinced that that is what the
market wants. And unfortunately they are probably correct about that.

Post by John Larkin
Computing gets ever cheaper, and we don't need unlimited compute power
forever. China is totally driven by The Party, and politicians make
bad technical decisions.

Of course we need unlimited computer power forever! The faster they can
make the hardware, the slower programmers will make the software. Do not
underestimate the ability of programmers to write bad code.
--scott

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Larkin
TSMC fabs what people design. Using mostly western fab equipment.
Are there asian sources for lithography machines? GigaPhoton tried to
compete with Cymer/ASML and mostly failed.

Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But _are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by
TSMC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhaoxin

However they're not saying where the latest model is being made:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/21189/zhaoxin-unveils-kx7000-cpus-eight-x86-cores-at-up-to-370-ghz

As for Loongson, the Wikipedia page says plainly that their chips
are made by STMicroelectronics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson#History

With this fairly recent reference (though not from a very relevent
source):
"STMicroelectronics, a French-Italian multinational electronics
manufacturer, fabricates and markets Loongson's chips, which
is fabless."
https://www.verdict.co.uk/china-backed-chip-company-files-for-shanghai-ipo/

ST aren't known for making cutting-edge PC CPUs, but they don't
have fabs in China (or Taiwan) either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STMicroelectronics

In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch. At
some point before the PRC can produce such chips competitively with
western/Taiwanese manufacturers, they'll probably be able to
produce them at a lower yeild, but for a price that their
government is willing to pay for the security of having full
control over their production, and just to keep their fabs
going/improving. In the mean time foreign fabs can be used to make
the chips commercially for normal consumer products.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch.

^^^^^
I mean yield of course. I meant to spell-check that before posting
but got distracted.

[Siri Cruise]

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch.

^^^^^
I mean yield of course. I meant to spell-check that before posting
but got distracted.

How boaring to have only one way to spell un mot.

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:45:00 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch.

^^^^^
I mean yield of course. I meant to spell-check that before posting
but got distracted.

How boaring to have only one way to spell un mot.

Rigid spelling rules are a fairly new concept. People used to write
anything that sounded about right. Looking at old correspondence, it
was common to have the same word spelled different ways in a single
letter.

[Governor Swill]

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:45:00 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch.

^^^^^
I mean yield of course. I meant to spell-check that before posting
but got distracted.

How boaring to have only one way to spell un mot.

Rigid spelling rules are a fairly new concept. People used to write
anything that sounded about right. Looking at old correspondence, it
was common to have the same word spelled different ways in a single
letter.

Early versions of American documents used "f" in place of "s".

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:22:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:45:00 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch.

^^^^^
I mean yield of course. I meant to spell-check that before posting
but got distracted.

How boaring to have only one way to spell un mot.

Rigid spelling rules are a fairly new concept. People used to write
anything that sounded about right. Looking at old correspondence, it
was common to have the same word spelled different ways in a single
letter.

Early versions of American documents used "f" in place of "s".
Swill

Fancy used to be phancy. American spellings often simplified the
British versions.

[Siri Cruise]

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:22:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:45:00 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch.

^^^^^
I mean yield of course. I meant to spell-check that before posting
but got distracted.

How boaring to have only one way to spell un mot.

Rigid spelling rules are a fairly new concept. People used to write
anything that sounded about right. Looking at old correspondence, it
was common to have the same word spelled different ways in a single
letter.

Early versions of American documents used "f" in place of "s".
Swill

Fancy used to be phancy. American spellings often simplified the
British versions.

Nonterminal 's' used to be the elongated s now used as an integral
sign.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:22:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:45:00 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch.

^^^^^
I mean yield of course. I meant to spell-check that before posting
but got distracted.

How boaring to have only one way to spell un mot.

Rigid spelling rules are a fairly new concept. People used to write
anything that sounded about right. Looking at old correspondence, it
was common to have the same word spelled different ways in a single
letter.

Early versions of American documents used "f" in place of "s".
Swill

Fancy used to be phancy. American spellings often simplified the
British versions.

Noah Webster wanted to block British English dictionaries from the
American market - monopolies make money for monopolists.

[Andreas Eder]

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:45:00 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch.

^^^^^
I mean yield of course. I meant to spell-check that before posting
but got distracted.

How boaring to have only one way to spell un mot.

Rigid spelling rules are a fairly new concept. People used to write
anything that sounded about right. Looking at old correspondence, it
was common to have the same word spelled different ways in a single
letter.

Early versions of American documents used "f" in place of "s".

That was in all probability not an "f"m but a "long s".

'Andreas

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:45:00 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch.

^^^^^
I mean yield of course. I meant to spell-check that before posting
but got distracted.

How boaring to have only one way to spell un mot.

Rigid spelling rules are a fairly new concept. People used to write
anything that sounded about right. Looking at old correspondence, it
was common to have the same word spelled different ways in a single
letter.

Early versions of American documents used "f" in place of "s".

That's not an "F" it's a "long S" and it's in the type box next to the
lowercase S. It replaces lowercase S in the middle of a word. Not
always used in the 18th century but it was a feature of a lot of fonts
and handwriting systems back then.

You also would see a lot of weird ligatures back then which are seldom
seen today. Some of that stuff didn't actually disappear until automated
typesetting came along, as there are only so many keys on the linotype.
--scott

[john larkin]

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Larkin
TSMC fabs what people design. Using mostly western fab equipment.
Are there asian sources for lithography machines? GigaPhoton tried to
compete with Cymer/ASML and mostly failed.

Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But _are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhaoxin
https://www.anandtech.com/show/21189/zhaoxin-unveils-kx7000-cpus-eight-x86-cores-at-up-to-370-ghz
As for Loongson, the Wikipedia page says plainly that their chips
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson#History
With this fairly recent reference (though not from a very relevent
"STMicroelectronics, a French-Italian multinational electronics
manufacturer, fabricates and markets Loongson's chips, which
is fabless."
https://www.verdict.co.uk/china-backed-chip-company-files-for-shanghai-ipo/
ST aren't known for making cutting-edge PC CPUs, but they don't
have fabs in China (or Taiwan) either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STMicroelectronics
In a practical sense an important factor for semiconductor fabs has
always been yeild - how many failed chips they get in a batch. At
some point before the PRC can produce such chips competitively with
western/Taiwanese manufacturers, they'll probably be able to
produce them at a lower yeild, but for a price that their
government is willing to pay for the security of having full
control over their production, and just to keep their fabs
going/improving. In the mean time foreign fabs can be used to make
the chips commercially for normal consumer products.

Longsoon is a 23-year-old project so far. It's MIPS, fabricated by ST,
and their new OS is based on Linux.

I don't think the US has a lot to fear just yet.

[Siri Cruise]

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.

We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.

They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Siri Cruise

Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution.  Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan.  This
gives them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible
out of what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_  they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good as
America and Taiwan.

They've got them. They haven't got the competent mangers you find in
Europe and Taiwan - the Chinese Communist Party insists on supervising
those engineers with same sort of enthusiasm that American venture
capitalists supervise US engineers. European engineers aren't all that
expertly supervised either, but the culture is a bit more relaxed, which
leave more room for ingenuity.

Post by Siri Cruise
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a watch.
If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors, the only
thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.

There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

Post by Siri Cruise
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program loaders and
IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

Why bother. It wasn't wonderful back when it was state of the art.
IBM debugged Bill Gate's original offering which made it just reliable
enough to make it a commercial success.

[Siri Cruise]

They've got them. They haven't got the competent man[a]gers you find
in Europe and Taiwan -

Minor correction: 'manger' is something different.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior. If it looks good, it's ok for production. Who cares if it
works?

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior. If it looks good, it's ok for production. Who cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.

State monopolies on products and information prevent competition.

What's a classic statist behavior is dangerous products and
infrastructure with criticism and deaths suppressed. Tofu dreg.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior. If it looks good, it's ok for production. Who cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.
State monopolies on products and information prevent competition.

But China doesn't have that. The only monopoly the Chinese Communist
Party is interested in is it's own monopoly on political power.
Once you have absolute political power you can monetarise it, but the
other politicians are likely to notice and object.

Post by John Larkin
What's a classic statist behavior is dangerous products and
infrastructure with criticism and deaths suppressed. Tofu dreg.

Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of
Boeing's recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich
people controlling country isn't - technically speaking - state control,
but it has the same defects.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman
Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of
Boeing's recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich
people controlling country isn't - technically speaking - state control,
but it has the same defects.

Point well taken.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:00:13 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of
Boeing's recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich
people controlling country isn't - technically speaking - state control,
but it has the same defects.

Point well taken.
Swill

The recent Boeing issues haven't been lethal. I'm sure that Airbus
planes have the occasional hydraulic fluid leak or blown tire.

A "limited number of rich people" is sure better than a country with
one supreme ruler for life. We have Apple and Microsoft, Ford and
Honda, Raytheon and Lockheed. We have choices.

The richest people in the US started with no capital and an idea. They
invented things. Many were college dropouts.

[Governor Swill]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:00:13 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of
Boeing's recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich
people controlling country isn't - technically speaking - state control,
but it has the same defects.

Point well taken.
Swill

The recent Boeing issues haven't been lethal. I'm sure that Airbus
planes have the occasional hydraulic fluid leak or blown tire.
A "limited number of rich people" is sure better than a country with
one supreme ruler for life. We have Apple and Microsoft, Ford and
Honda, Raytheon and Lockheed. We have choices.
The richest people in the US started with no capital and an idea. They
invented things. Many were college dropouts.

Some of the Boeing issues have been disconcerting. A cargo door blowing out at altitude
comes to mind.

In any case, the recent spate of issues combined with documented corner cutting has cost
the Chief his job.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:00:13 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of
Boeing's recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich
people controlling country isn't - technically speaking - state control,
but it has the same defects.

Point well taken.

The recent Boeing issues haven't been lethal. I'm sure that Airbus
planes have the occasional hydraulic fluid leak or blown tire.

https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transportation/2024/03/04/faa-finds-boeing-did-not-comply-with-quality-assurance-protocols

Leaving out bolts is a bit more serious than a hydraulic fluid leak or a
blown tire.

Post by John Larkin
A "limited number of rich people" is sure better than a country with
one supreme ruler for life.

China and Russia are both oligarchies - they don't have one supreme
ruler for life, even if it may look that way to the unsophisticated.
The American plutocracy is just one more oligarchy.

Post by John Larkin
We have Apple and Microsoft, Ford and
Honda, Raytheon and Lockheed. We have choices.

Not all that many.

Post by John Larkin
The richest people in the US started with no capital and an idea. They
invented things. Many were college dropouts.

Musk started off with an inherited fortune, and he doesn't seem to have
invented anything yet. He has picked up other people's speculative
ideas, which isn't invention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:00:13 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of
Boeing's recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich
people controlling country isn't - technically speaking - state control,
but it has the same defects.

Point well taken.

The recent Boeing issues haven't been lethal. I'm sure that Airbus
planes have the occasional hydraulic fluid leak or blown tire.

https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transportation/2024/03/04/faa-finds-boeing-did-not-comply-with-quality-assurance-protocols
Leaving out bolts is a bit more serious than a hydraulic fluid leak or a
blown tire.

Post by John Larkin
A "limited number of rich people" is sure better than a country with
one supreme ruler for life.

China and Russia are both oligarchies - they don't have one supreme
ruler for life, even if it may look that way to the unsophisticated.
The American plutocracy is just one more oligarchy.

Post by John Larkin
We have Apple and Microsoft, Ford and
Honda, Raytheon and Lockheed. We have choices.

Not all that many.

Post by John Larkin
The richest people in the US started with no capital and an idea. They
invented things. Many were college dropouts.

Musk started off with an inherited fortune, and he doesn't seem to have
invented anything yet. He has picked up other people's speculative
ideas, which isn't invention.

Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me.

As has every inventor throughout human history. You think Edison invented his devices
entirely out of whole cloth? He, as they say, stood on the shoulders of giants. Musk is
no different.

Post by Bill Sloman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:00:13 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of
Boeing's recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich
people controlling country isn't - technically speaking - state control,
but it has the same defects.

Point well taken.

The recent Boeing issues haven't been lethal. I'm sure that Airbus
planes have the occasional hydraulic fluid leak or blown tire.

https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transportation/2024/03/04/faa-finds-boeing-did-not-comply-with-quality-assurance-protocols
Leaving out bolts is a bit more serious than a hydraulic fluid leak or a
blown tire.

Post by John Larkin
A "limited number of rich people" is sure better than a country with
one supreme ruler for life.

China and Russia are both oligarchies - they don't have one supreme
ruler for life, even if it may look that way to the unsophisticated.
The American plutocracy is just one more oligarchy.

Post by John Larkin
We have Apple and Microsoft, Ford and
Honda, Raytheon and Lockheed. We have choices.

Not all that many.

Post by John Larkin
The richest people in the US started with no capital and an idea. They
invented things. Many were college dropouts.

Musk started off with an inherited fortune, and he doesn't seem to have
invented anything yet. He has picked up other people's speculative
ideas, which isn't invention.

Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me.
As has every inventor throughout human history. You think Edison invented his devices
entirely out of whole cloth? He, as they say, stood on the shoulders of giants.
Musk is no different.

Musk hasn't got his name on any patents at all. Edison had over a
thousand US patents

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Edison_patents

I've got three. My father had 25 and I've got two friends who have done
as well. We may have stood on the shoulders of giants, but we came up
with new ways of doing stuff.

Musk isn't an inventor. That's a fact, not sour grapes.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

[Anonymous]

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior.  If it looks good, it's ok for production.  Who
cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.
State monopolies on products and information prevent competition.

But China doesn't have that. The only monopoly the Chinese Communist Party is
interested in is it's own monopoly on political power.
Once you have absolute political power you can monetarise it, but the other
politicians are likely to notice and object.

Post by John Larkin
What's a classic statist behavior is dangerous products and
infrastructure with criticism and deaths suppressed. Tofu dreg.

Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of Boeing's
recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich people controlling
country isn't - technically speaking - state control, but it has the same defects.

Rich people don't rule anything.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Anonymous

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:24:46 +1100, Bill Sloman

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior.  If it looks good, it's ok for
production.  Who cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.
State monopolies on products and information prevent competition.

But China doesn't have that. The only monopoly the Chinese Communist
Party is interested in is it's own monopoly on political power.
Once you have absolute political power you can monetarise it, but the
other politicians are likely to notice and object.

Post by John Larkin
What's a classic statist behavior is dangerous products and
infrastructure with criticism and deaths suppressed. Tofu dreg.

Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of
Boeing's recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich
people controlling country isn't - technically speaking - state
control, but it has the same defects.

Rich people don't rule anything.

Dream on. In the US they don't have any explicit right to rule, but the
US Supreme Court is dedicated to the idea that they should be allowed to
spend as much as they like on buying influence by contributing to
politicians electoral expenses.

Think about why the US hasn't got universal health care.

[Anonymous]

Post by Anonymous

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior.  If it looks good, it's ok for production.
Who cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.
State monopolies on products and information prevent competition.

But China doesn't have that. The only monopoly the Chinese Communist Party is
interested in is it's own monopoly on political power.
Once you have absolute political power you can monetarise it, but the other
politicians are likely to notice and object.

Post by John Larkin
What's a classic statist behavior is dangerous products and
infrastructure with criticism and deaths suppressed. Tofu dreg.

Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of
Boeing's recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich people
controlling country isn't - technically speaking - state control, but it has
the same defects.

Rich people don't rule anything.

Dream on. In the US they don't have any explicit right to rule, but the US
Supreme Court is dedicated to the idea that they should be allowed to spend as
much as they like on buying influence by contributing to politicians electoral
expenses.
Think about why the US hasn't got universal health care.

Merchants by their nature can't coordinate their varied and conflicting
interests into a singular political force. Without the government, any
group of merchants who form a cartel will find themselves defected upon
by any one or more members of that cartel, and will cease to be a cartel.

[John Larkin]

Post by Anonymous

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior.  If it looks good, it's ok for production.  Who
cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.
State monopolies on products and information prevent competition.

But China doesn't have that. The only monopoly the Chinese Communist Party is
interested in is it's own monopoly on political power.
Once you have absolute political power you can monetarise it, but the other
politicians are likely to notice and object.

Post by John Larkin
What's a classic statist behavior is dangerous products and
infrastructure with criticism and deaths suppressed. Tofu dreg.

Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of Boeing's
recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich people controlling
country isn't - technically speaking - state control, but it has the same defects.

Rich people don't rule anything.

They have influence, but have to compete for even that. They will be
punished for murder or for littering.

US antitrust law does work to damped the monopoly positive-feedback
effects.

The only real monopoly in the US is the Federal government.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by John Larkin

Post by Anonymous

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior.  If it looks good, it's ok for production.  Who
cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.
State monopolies on products and information prevent competition.

But China doesn't have that. The only monopoly the Chinese Communist Party is
interested in is it's own monopoly on political power.
Once you have absolute political power you can monetarise it, but the other
politicians are likely to notice and object.

Post by John Larkin
What's a classic statist behavior is dangerous products and
infrastructure with criticism and deaths suppressed. Tofu dreg.

Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of Boeing's
recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich people controlling
country isn't - technically speaking - state control, but it has the same defects.

Rich people don't rule anything.

They have influence, but have to compete for even that. They will be
punished for murder or for littering.

Not all that often.

Post by John Larkin
US antitrust law does work to damp the monopoly positive-feedback
effects.

Not all that well.

Post by John Larkin
The only real monopoly in the US is the Federal government.

Bell Labs used to be. Dismantling their monopoly didn't improve the service.

Microsoft is effectively a monopoly. Linux has subverted it, but in a
non-commercial way.

Natural monopolies are best managed as an aspect of government, with
democratic checks and balances to restrain their natural tendency to
authoritarian behaviour - as the Victorians had worked by about 1900.

Free market fundamentalists think they know better, and the Enron
example hasn't changed whatever it is they use instead of minds.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin

Post by Anonymous

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior.  If it looks good, it's ok for production.  Who
cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.
State monopolies on products and information prevent competition.

But China doesn't have that. The only monopoly the Chinese Communist Party is
interested in is it's own monopoly on political power.
Once you have absolute political power you can monetarise it, but the other
politicians are likely to notice and object.

Post by John Larkin
What's a classic statist behavior is dangerous products and
infrastructure with criticism and deaths suppressed. Tofu dreg.

Nobody in the US is making much fuss about the lethal consequences of Boeing's
recent quality control disasters. A limited number of rich people controlling
country isn't - technically speaking - state control, but it has the same defects.

Rich people don't rule anything.

They have influence, but have to compete for even that. They will be
punished for murder or for littering.

Not all that often.

LOL! Look up "affluenza" and OJ Simpson. See also "Teen was driving 112 mph before crash
that killed woman, 3 children in Washington state"
<https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/03/25/teen-speeding-deadly-car-crash-washington-state/73089429007/>

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
US antitrust law does work to damp the monopoly positive-feedback
effects.

Not all that well.

Yeah, that well.

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
The only real monopoly in the US is the Federal government.

Bell Labs used to be. Dismantling their monopoly didn't improve the service.

Yes, actually, it did. I didn't have a wireless, cordless phone in my pocket with free
long distance for $15 a month in 1975. What I had was a plastic box chained to the wall
that would let me talk 'for free' with people up to fifty miles away for $150 a month. Any
further than that and there were extra charges stacked on top.

Post by Bill Sloman
Microsoft is effectively a monopoly. Linux has subverted it, but in a
non-commercial way.

Isn't Apple the biggest market cap on the planet?

Post by Bill Sloman
Natural monopolies are best managed as an aspect of government, with
democratic checks and balances to restrain their natural tendency to
authoritarian behaviour - as the Victorians had worked by about 1900.

Regulated monopolies have their place. Competition has its place. Sometimes they can
complement each other.

Post by Bill Sloman
Free market fundamentalists think they know better,

Unfettered capitalism is no better than unfettered communism.

Post by Bill Sloman
and the Enron
example hasn't changed whatever it is they use instead of minds.

Bitter much?

Free markets are better than single point control though absolutes are abhorrent.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

<snip>

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
Bell Labs used to be. Dismantling their monopoly didn't improve the service.

Yes, actually, it did. I didn't have a wireless, cordless phone in my pocket with free
long distance for $15 a month in 1975. What I had was a plastic box chained to the wall
that would let me talk 'for free' with people up to fifty miles away for $150 a month. Any
further than that and there were extra charges stacked on top.

Bell Labs invented the cellular phone technology implemented (by much
more capable and compact electronics) in today's mobile phones.

The process of getting it into people's pockets wasn't much helped by
dismantling the monopoly - it's still a natural monopoly. Bell Labs
invented a hell of a lot, but it takes time to turn news inventions into
a seamless web of service.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
Microsoft is effectively a monopoly. Linux has subverted it, but in a
non-commercial way.

Isn't Apple the biggest market cap on the planet?

It has taken over from Hewlett Packard and IBM in charging half as much
again for the same technology that everybody else sells, which does much
the same for the customer, but works well enough to let them claim that
their product is better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_Excellence

explored the effect in 1982. It was mainly a recognition that if you are
competent enough to get away with claiming to be excellent you can
charge extra.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
Natural monopolies are best managed as an aspect of government, with
democratic checks and balances to restrain their natural tendency to
authoritarian behaviour - as the Victorians had worked by about 1900.

Regulated monopolies have their place. Competition has its place. Sometimes they can
complement each other.

Post by Bill Sloman
Free market fundamentalists think they know better,

Unfettered capitalism is no better than unfettered communism.

Communism is authoritarian socialism. Socialism is fettered by the
democratic process, and Communism puts a single monolithic party in charge.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
and the Enron example hasn't changed whatever it is they use instead of minds.

Bitter much?

One doesn't get "bitter" about half-baked political propaganda. It is
sensible to jeer at it.

Post by Governor Swill
Free markets are better than single point control though absolutes are abhorrent.

Democratic socialism provides a sensible way of fettering the excesses
of the free market. Proportional representation electing a handful of
representatives for multi-member constituencies gives you multiparty
coalition government which works well over most of Europe - I got to see
it close up during the 19 years I lived in the Netherlands.

They've all ended up with universal medical care which the US hasn't got
yet. The people who make money out over-charging for medical insurance
in the US have been able to block it so far.

[Governor Swill]

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior. If it looks good, it's ok for production. Who cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.

Thus Japan took over the US auto market.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[john larkin]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:00:43 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior. If it looks good, it's ok for production. Who cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.

Thus Japan took over the US auto market.

Ballpark 32% now, down from a peak around 40.

[Governor Swill]

Post by john larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:00:43 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior. If it looks good, it's ok for production. Who cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.

Thus Japan took over the US auto market.

Ballpark 32% now, down from a peak around 40.

In the mid nineteen sixties, GM had over half the domestic market to itself. Today, the
big three share about a third.

Not that it matters much anymore. A Honda Ridgeline is just one of six Honda models that
have more US content than anything built by GM, Ford or Chrysler.
<https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-467465/>

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by john larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:00:43 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:24:31 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
There are different ways of being corrupt - Trump cheats different from
Chairman Xi - but the aim of creating a good appearance rather than a
good product is always lethal.

A classic American behavior. If it looks good, it's ok for production. Who cares if it
works?

People talk about bad products. There are reviews.

Thus Japan took over the US auto market.

Ballpark 32% now, down from a peak around 40%.

Japan hasn't got Tesla - yet.

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:42:43 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

The near-trillionaires in the USA started as amateurs. Gates, Jobs,
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Brin. I don't think commie countries breed
people like that and, if they had some and they get too powerful, they
tend to disappear or fall out of windows. The Party can't permit
anyone else to have power. And The Party doesn't invent things.

Of the 10 richest people in the world, 9 are Americans. And they
didn't start with capital, they started with ideas.

[Governor Swill]

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:42:43 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

The near-trillionaires in the USA started as amateurs. Gates, Jobs,
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Brin. I don't think commie countries breed
people like that and, if they had some and they get too powerful, they
tend to disappear or fall out of windows. The Party can't permit
anyone else to have power. And The Party doesn't invent things.
Of the 10 richest people in the world, 9 are Americans. And they
didn't start with capital, they started with ideas.

This is why we the failure of dictators like Putin and Xi against us is inevitable. They
kill or exile their smart people when they fail the loyalty test.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:15:48 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:42:43 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

The near-trillionaires in the USA started as amateurs. Gates, Jobs,
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Brin. I don't think commie countries breed
people like that and, if they had some and they get too powerful, they
tend to disappear or fall out of windows. The Party can't permit
anyone else to have power. And The Party doesn't invent things.
Of the 10 richest people in the world, 9 are Americans. And they
didn't start with capital, they started with ideas.

This is why we the failure of dictators like Putin and Xi against us is inevitable. They
kill or exile their smart people when they fail the loyalty test.
Swill

I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:15:48 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:42:43 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

The near-trillionaires in the USA started as amateurs. Gates, Jobs,
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Brin. I don't think commie countries breed
people like that and, if they had some and they get too powerful, they
tend to disappear or fall out of windows. The Party can't permit
anyone else to have power. And The Party doesn't invent things.
Of the 10 richest people in the world, 9 are Americans. And they
didn't start with capital, they started with ideas.

This is why we the failure of dictators like Putin and Xi against us is inevitable. They
kill or exile their smart people when they fail the loyalty test.

I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Even Putin isn't that stupid.

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

Smart suffers from religious mania don't feel the same need emigrate as
their less subtle colleagues.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:15:48 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:42:43 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

The near-trillionaires in the USA started as amateurs. Gates, Jobs,
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Brin. I don't think commie countries breed
people like that and, if they had some and they get too powerful, they
tend to disappear or fall out of windows. The Party can't permit
anyone else to have power. And The Party doesn't invent things.
Of the 10 richest people in the world, 9 are Americans. And they
didn't start with capital, they started with ideas.

This is why we the failure of dictators like Putin and Xi against us is inevitable. They
kill or exile their smart people when they fail the loyalty test.

I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Even Putin isn't that stupid.

Yes, actually, he is. He completed his most recent military and governmental purge only a
couple of years before the 2022 invasion.

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Post by Bill Sloman
Smart suffers from religious mania don't feel the same need emigrate as
their less subtle colleagues.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:15:48 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:42:43 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

The near-trillionaires in the USA started as amateurs. Gates, Jobs,
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Brin. I don't think commie countries breed
people like that and, if they had some and they get too powerful, they
tend to disappear or fall out of windows. The Party can't permit
anyone else to have power. And The Party doesn't invent things.
Of the 10 richest people in the world, 9 are Americans. And they
didn't start with capital, they started with ideas.

This is why we the failure of dictators like Putin and Xi against us is inevitable. They
kill or exile their smart people when they fail the loyalty test.

I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Even Putin isn't that stupid.

Yes, actually, he is. He completed his most recent military and governmental purge only a
couple of years before the 2022 invasion.

He only got rid of trouble makers who were silly enough to attract his
attention. He sees no value in dumb per se, and is only interested in
getting rid of overt hostility.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went when
they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
Smart suffers from religious mania don't feel the same need emigrate as
their less subtle colleagues.

Not a feature that Americans are fond of appreciating.

[Siri Cruise]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial
country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant
intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious
zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable
English religious conformity?

[Governor Swill]

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial
country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant
intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious
zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable
English religious conformity?

Makes sense to be. They wanted to be tolerated but didn't want to tolerate anybody else.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:02:08 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial
country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious
zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable
English religious conformity?

Makes sense to be. They wanted to be tolerated but didn't want to tolerate anybody else.

Read the First Amendment to the US Constitution. It wasn't written by
religious bigots.

[Governor Swill]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:02:08 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious
zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable
English religious conformity?

Makes sense to be. They wanted to be tolerated but didn't want to tolerate anybody else.

Read the First Amendment to the US Constitution. It wasn't written by
religious bigots.

No, it wasn't. Generally speaking, the founders, the authors of our founding documents
and literature, weren't particularly religious and some were all but agnostic. Several
were antipathetic towards religion. Jefferson so distrusted the Bible that he assembled
his own from the red letters. Benjamin Franklin, a hedonist of some repute, was a member
in good standing of almost every church in Philadelphia and attended at least one
Synagogue from time to time. For him, it was astute politics.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:02:08 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious
zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable
English religious conformity?

Makes sense to be. They wanted to be tolerated but didn't want to tolerate anybody else.

Read the First Amendment to the US Constitution. It wasn't written by
religious bigots.

Actually, it was but they were of diverse religions, and wanted a level
playing field.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:02:08 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious
zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable
English religious conformity?

Makes sense to be. They wanted to be tolerated but didn't want to tolerate anybody else.

Read the First Amendment to the US Constitution. It wasn't written by
religious bigots.

Actually, it was but they were of diverse religions, and wanted a level
playing field.

Actually it wasn't. While they typically shared a belief in God, few of them were notably
religious. Church was, and still is, far more a social organ than a philosophical one.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:02:08 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable
English religious conformity?

Makes sense to be. They wanted to be tolerated but didn't want to tolerate anybody else.

Read the First Amendment to the US Constitution. It wasn't written by
religious bigots.

Actually, it was but they were of diverse religions, and wanted a level
playing field.

Actually it wasn't. While they typically shared a belief in God, few of them were notably
religious. Church was, and still is, far more a social organ than a philosophical one.

Around 1788, the idea of churches as a social organ made them a lot more
important than churches are today. You didn't have to be notably
religious to share the then common belief that some church or other was
needed to keep people well behaved.

Even Baruch Spinoza shared that idea. Not exactly Karl Marx's "the opium
of the people" but more an easily accessible rationalisation.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable English
religious conformity?

It wasn't just the UK who made life difficult for non-conformists,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza

"As a young man, Spinoza was permanently expelled from the Jewish
community (in Amsterdam) for defying rabbinic authorities and disputing
Jewish beliefs. After his expulsion in 1656, he did not affiliate with
any religion, instead focusing on philosophical study."

He was 24 at the time,and spent the next twenty years grinding lenses
and working out his own system of beliefs, which are now widely shared,
entirely because they make a lot of sense.

If you were obnoxious about having your own ideas you could get into all
kinds of trouble, and emigrating to America could let you join up with
people who were equally obnoxious, but shared your ideas (and were even
more unkind to people who didn't).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_martyrs

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 23:21:41 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial
country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant
intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious
zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable
English religious conformity?

The US is not intensely religious, and is tolerant, and religious
affiliation is slowly declining. I know people who belong to churches
more for the social interaction than out of holy devotion.

As William Sloan Coffin said (I was there) "I may not believe in God,
but Jesus is my kind of guy."

Our Constition is based on Judeao-Christian principles but is not
specifically religious.

[Governor Swill]

Post by John Larkin
Our Constition is based on Judeao-Christian principles but is not
specifically religious.

Really?

Exactly what biblical principles is the Constitution based on?

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:33:36 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
Our Constition is based on Judeao-Christian principles but is not
specifically religious.

Really?
Exactly what biblical principles is the Constitution based on?
Swill

The Ten Commandments was a good start.

[Siri Cruise]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:33:36 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
Our Constition is based on Judeao-Christian principles but is not
specifically religious.

Really?
Exactly what biblical principles is the Constitution based on?
Swill

The Ten Commandments was a good start.

Actually a fusion of germanic tribal and roman law.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:33:36 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
Our Constition is based on Judeao-Christian principles but is not
specifically religious.

Really?
Exactly what biblical principles is the Constitution based on?
Swill

The Ten Commandments was a good start.

Actually a fusion of germanic tribal and roman law.

Heavily seasoned with indigenous American governing practices based on a Dutch model that
was derived from Roman and Greek origins.

Shoulders of Giants, indeed.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Governor Swill]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:33:36 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
Our Constition is based on Judeao-Christian principles but is not
specifically religious.

Really?
Exactly what biblical principles is the Constitution based on?
Swill

The Ten Commandments was a good start.

Show me the Ten Commandments in the US Constitution.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Jeroen Belleman]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:33:36 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
Our Constition is based on Judeao-Christian principles but is not
specifically religious.

Really?
Exactly what biblical principles is the Constitution based on?
Swill

The Ten Commandments was a good start.

Far too religious. I think one simple rule suffices: Don't
do to others what you wouldn't want them to do to you.

Jeroen Belleman

[Siri Cruise]

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:33:36 -0400, Governor Swill

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 08:15:08 -0700, John Larkin

Post by John Larkin
Our Constition is based on Judeao-Christian principles but is not
specifically religious.

Really?
Exactly what biblical principles is the Constitution based on?
Swill

The Ten Commandments was a good start.

Far too religious. I think one simple rule suffices: Don't
do to others what you wouldn't want them to do to you.
Jeroen Belleman

How about love the people around you?

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 12:05:28 +0100, Jeroen Belleman

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:33:36 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
Our Constition is based on Judeao-Christian principles but is not
specifically religious.

Really?
Exactly what biblical principles is the Constitution based on?
Swill

The Ten Commandments was a good start.

Far too religious. I think one simple rule suffices: Don't
do to others what you wouldn't want them to do to you.
Jeroen Belleman

Earthlings were one tribal competitors, subsitance level, fighting and
killing to defend their turf and their local gene pool. Some part of
the world took a path to a more peaceful and prosperous society, with
writing, science, laws, cows, antibiotics and electronics. The path to
the developed world included greek philosophy, roman government,
judeao-christian rules, the reformation and the enlightenment,
constitutional government, and general happiness.

I think that the average feelings of a population make a peaceful
society possible. Some places obviously don't have that. Maybe it's
genetic.

[Anonymous Reactionary]

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went when they
decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable English
religious conformity?

The Puritans were the direct ancestors of anglosphere Leftism and sought
political power on the basis of being holier-than-thou. They were to
Christianity what the Pharisees were to the religion of the Old Testament.
They came to America and set up Harvard, from where they took over the
world.

King Charles II should have had them all killed.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Anonymous Reactionary

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable
English religious conformity?

The Puritans were the direct ancestors of anglosphere Leftism and sought
political power on the basis of being holier-than-thou.

There's no direct ancestry involved. Seeking political power on the
basis of being holier than thou shows up in all societies.

Of course if you were actually better informed than the rest of the
population, it would make sense to let you run the country, but most of
the people who are convinced they are better informed are deceiving
themselves.

Cursitor Doom and John Larkin are convinced they are better informed
about anthropogenic global warming than the international scientific
community.

Post by Anonymous Reactionary
They were to Christianity what the Pharisees were to the religion of the Old Testament.

The Pharisees emphasised appearance over performance. The Puritans
wanted both the appearance of virtue and virtuous performance as well.

Post by Anonymous Reactionary
They came to America and set up Harvard, from where they took over the
world.

The Harvard School of Business Administration has two unique features.
It's Masters Degree is worth more than any other for new hires, and it's
worth nothing after five years. Most post-graduate qualifications are
associated with higher salaries for new graduates, and the difference
typically gets larger as the graduates get more experience.

The Harvard MBA hasn't taken over the world - it has just created a lot
of initial favorable impressions that faded fast.

Post by Anonymous Reactionary
King Charles II should have had them all killed.

He gave the Royal Society of London in the UK it's Royal Charter in
1662. Harvard was founded in 1636, when Charles II was six - a six
year-old wouldn't have been in a position to have anybody killed.

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 23:21:41 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
America is remarkably religious for an advanced industrial
country. If
religious mania is a heritable defect, the US might have got an
excessive proportion of that kind of lunatic in its migrant
intake.

It was, from its earliest days, the place where religious
zealots went to avoid
persecution.

Or, to put it another way, the place where the florid zealots went
when they decided that they couldn't find a way of being tolerably
non-conformist.

USA is overly religious because nonconformists fled intolerable
English religious conformity?

Iran is overly religious. The USA is not.

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:05:02 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:15:48 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:42:43 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

The near-trillionaires in the USA started as amateurs. Gates, Jobs,
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Brin. I don't think commie countries breed
people like that and, if they had some and they get too powerful, they
tend to disappear or fall out of windows. The Party can't permit
anyone else to have power. And The Party doesn't invent things.
Of the 10 richest people in the world, 9 are Americans. And they
didn't start with capital, they started with ideas.

This is why we the failure of dictators like Putin and Xi against us is inevitable. They
kill or exile their smart people when they fail the loyalty test.

I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Even Putin isn't that stupid.

Yes, actually, he is. He completed his most recent military and governmental purge only a
couple of years before the 2022 invasion.

He's happy to be the dictator-for-life of a poor, patriotic, ignorant
population. He has to keep them that way.

The Russian language and alphabet contribute to their tribalism, but I
see a lot of English signage in Street View type pics. The isolation
really can't last.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:05:02 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:15:48 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:42:43 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

The near-trillionaires in the USA started as amateurs. Gates, Jobs,
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Brin. I don't think commie countries breed
people like that and, if they had some and they get too powerful, they
tend to disappear or fall out of windows. The Party can't permit
anyone else to have power. And The Party doesn't invent things.
Of the 10 richest people in the world, 9 are Americans. And they
didn't start with capital, they started with ideas.

This is why we the failure of dictators like Putin and Xi against us is inevitable. They
kill or exile their smart people when they fail the loyalty test.

I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Even Putin isn't that stupid.

Yes, actually, he is. He completed his most recent military and governmental purge only a
couple of years before the 2022 invasion.

He's happy to be the dictator-for-life of a poor, patriotic, ignorant
population. He has to keep them that way.
The Russian language and alphabet contribute to their tribalism, but I
see a lot of English signage in Street View type pics. The isolation
really can't last.

Google translate works quite well enough to guarantee that.

The Chinese languages and their utterly dire writing system should make
China even more tribal if that argument were worth advancing.

Russia and China were both late to exploit the agricultural revolution
and that slowed down their social revolutions.

The US adopted the first modern political constitution, and have been
slow to modernise it, which leaves them behind the game too, if not
quite as far.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman
The US adopted the first modern political constitution, and have been
slow to modernise it, which leaves them behind the game too, if not
quite as far.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Bill Sloman
The US adopted the first modern political constitution, and have been
slow to modernise it, which leaves them behind the game too, if not
quite as far.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Trump is pretty clear evidence that it needs fixing urgently.

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 05:53:34 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman
The US adopted the first modern political constitution, and have been
slow to modernise it, which leaves them behind the game too, if not
quite as far.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Swill

The Constitution is like the fundamental conservation principles of
physics, or the axioms of mathematics.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident..."

is brilliant.

The Constitution does include mechanisms to revise itself; they are
calibrated about right.

[Governor Swill]

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Actually the noisy, attention-getting scum that make themselves obvious.

They do over-value their own contributions, which is what American
exceptionalism is all about.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill
Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Actually the noisy, attention-getting scum that make themselves obvious.
They do over-value their own contributions, which is what American
exceptionalism is all about.

Mm . . . no. Don't agree. Only those with the most gumption come here. That kind of
ambition yields its own rewards. Because the US, or at least, the idea of America draws
so many, we end up with what from the other end is brain drain. The strongest survive and
they tend to come here and to Europe. This places Asian and other strongman states at a
disadvantage. Their people are always trying to get somewhere else.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill
Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Actually the noisy, attention-getting scum that make themselves obvious.
They do over-value their own contributions, which is what American
exceptionalism is all about.

Mm . . . no. Don't agree. Only those with the most gumption come here. That kind of
ambition yields its own rewards. Because the US, or at least, the idea of America draws
so many, we end up with what from the other end is brain drain.

You do have to be motivated to emigrate. Only the most obnoxious
religious zealots got that motivated.

It took a certain amount of enterprise to get themselves onto a boat,
but sensible an well-adjusted people didn't need to bother.

Quite a few sensible and well adjusted people saw potential economic
advantages in emigrating - my various grandparents and great
grandparents came to Australia on that basis, but none of them needed to
evade religious persecution.

Australia hasn't got an anomalously large group of believers.
The US picked up a lot of immigrants earlier, and has.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/14/map-these-are-the-worlds-least-religious-countries/

Post by Governor Swill
The strongest survive and they tend to come here and to Europe. This places Asian and other strongman states at a
disadvantage. Their people are always trying to get somewhere else.

Enterprising people are always trying to get someplace where they can
earn more money. That was pre-eminently the US for a quite a while, but
it isn't any longer.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill
Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Actually the noisy, attention-getting scum that make themselves obvious.
They do over-value their own contributions, which is what American
exceptionalism is all about.

Mm . . . no. Don't agree. Only those with the most gumption come here. That kind of
ambition yields its own rewards. Because the US, or at least, the idea of America draws
so many, we end up with what from the other end is brain drain.

You do have to be motivated to emigrate. Only the most obnoxious
religious zealots got that motivated.
It took a certain amount of enterprise to get themselves onto a boat,
but sensible an well-adjusted people didn't need to bother.
Quite a few sensible and well adjusted people saw potential economic
advantages in emigrating - my various grandparents and great
grandparents came to Australia on that basis, but none of them needed to
evade religious persecution.

The zealots were only the very earliest of those who came here. By the time the US was
established, the religious wars in Europe were over and tolerance was beginning to grow.
By the start of the 19th century, the US was, as you note above, a place to seek your
fortune. That said, many did come here to escape. The Irish came here to escape famine.
Russians and east Europeans, especially Jews, came here to escape pogroms, the virtual
slavery of serfdom and the last vestiges of feudalism. In the nineteenth Italians and
Sicilians came to escape grinding poverty and endemic crime. Even in the 20th century
they came to escape wars and war damage that routinely afflicted Europe right up until
post WWII when the US helped lead the way to a global peace - such as it is.

Post by Bill Sloman
Australia hasn't got an anomalously large group of believers.
The US picked up a lot of immigrants earlier, and has.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/14/map-these-are-the-worlds-least-religious-countries/

Post by Governor Swill
The strongest survive and they tend to come here and to Europe. This places Asian and other strongman states at a
disadvantage. Their people are always trying to get somewhere else.

Enterprising people are always trying to get someplace where they can
earn more money. That was pre-eminently the US for a quite a while, but
it isn't any longer.

It would be if the right wing, white racist xenophobes would open up the doors to
immigrants. The 21st could be the Second Century of America instead of China's century.
Pax Americana *depends* on immigration.

Wandering a bit from topic:

Looking it up out of curiosity, it seems the Thirty Years War of the first half of the
17th century, the last of the great religious wars, was Europe's deadliest. About 20% of
the total population, that's one in five, died as a result. Less than 10% died in the two
World Wars of the 20th century. Pre 1939, Europe had about 571m people. Estimates range
from 45M dead. In 1900, Europe had about 300m with about 20m dead.

While WWI was sparked by the assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand, and WWII can be
dated from Germany's invasion of Poland, the Thirty Years was sparked by the
Defenestration of Prague. (what is it with throwing people windows over there?)
"The Thirty Years’ War: The first modern war?"
<https://blogs.icrc.org/law-and-policy/2017/05/23/thirty-years-war-first-modern-war/#:~:text=The%20Thirty%20Years%27%20War%20is,by%20as%20much%20as%2060%25.>

What sets the 20th apart though, was the development of The Bomb. It is that, more than
any other single factor, which has caused the Great Powers to abstain from making war on
each other. Imo, of course.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Siri Cruise]

Post by Bill Sloman
You do have to be motivated to emigrate. Only the most obnoxious
religious zealots got that motivated.

Since you don't understand how motivating religion can be, you're
ascribing emotions you can't understand. Do consider some
Catholics were motivated enough to let themselves be burned alive.

Post by Bill Sloman
It took a certain amount of enterprise to get themselves onto a
boat, but sensible an well-adjusted people didn't need to bother.

Nevertheless many anti-anglican protestants and catholics did hire
boats. Speaking of how unwell-adjusted anti-anglican protestants
could be, one of them, Cromwell, relieved his king of his
burdensome well-adjusted and well-coifed head.

Post by Bill Sloman
Quite a few sensible and well adjusted people saw potential
economic advantages in emigrating - my various grandparents and
great grandparents came to Australia on that basis, but none of
them needed to evade religious persecution.

By that time dissenting protestants were no longer outlawed. Even
catholicism was eventually legalised.

Post by Bill Sloman
Australia hasn't got an anomalously large group of believers.
The US picked up a lot of immigrants earlier, and has.

As far as how well-adjusted Europe has become, they don't sound
that interested in religion in polls. However as a large group of
believers moved in, they have reacted a bit. Moslem believers this
time. We poorly adjusted americans let moslem women wear burqas,
bikinis, blue gingham dresses, whatever they want. France outlawed
any obvious religious clothes. France is so much more
well-adjusted and tolerant than religious zealotry of USA.

Does Australia still run concentration camps on islands off its
north shore?

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill
The strongest survive and they tend to come here and to Europe.
This places Asian and other strongman states at a
disadvantage.  Their people are always trying to get somewhere
else.

Hindus and moslems come to the USA where they freely and openly
practice their religion while being fully integrated into the
economy rather forced into impoverished ghettos outside the
cities. As a result they made themselves and the rest of USA richer.

Post by Bill Sloman
Enterprising people are always trying to get someplace where they
can earn more money. That was pre-eminently the US for a quite a
while, but it isn't any longer.

As England oppressed dissenting protestants they eventually
started their own schools and economy. They were so successful
they dragged the discriminatory anglican government into the
industrial revolution.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman
You do have to be motivated to emigrate. Only the most obnoxious
religious zealots got that motivated.

Since you don't understand how motivating religion can be, you're
ascribing emotions you can't understand. Do consider some
Catholics were motivated enough to let themselves be burned alive.

Post by Bill Sloman
It took a certain amount of enterprise to get themselves onto a
boat, but sensible an well-adjusted people didn't need to bother.

Nevertheless many anti-anglican protestants and catholics did hire
boats. Speaking of how unwell-adjusted anti-anglican protestants
could be, one of them, Cromwell, relieved his king of his
burdensome well-adjusted and well-coifed head.

Post by Bill Sloman
Quite a few sensible and well adjusted people saw potential
economic advantages in emigrating - my various grandparents and
great grandparents came to Australia on that basis, but none of
them needed to evade religious persecution.

By that time dissenting protestants were no longer outlawed. Even
catholicism was eventually legalised.

Post by Bill Sloman
Australia hasn't got an anomalously large group of believers.
The US picked up a lot of immigrants earlier, and has.

As far as how well-adjusted Europe has become, they don't sound
that interested in religion in polls. However as a large group of
believers moved in, they have reacted a bit. Moslem believers this
time. We poorly adjusted americans let moslem women wear burqas,
bikinis, blue gingham dresses, whatever they want. France outlawed
any obvious religious clothes. France is so much more
well-adjusted and tolerant than religious zealotry of USA.
Does Australia still run concentration camps on islands off its
north shore?

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill
The strongest survive and they tend to come here and to Europe.
This places Asian and other strongman states at a
disadvantage.  Their people are always trying to get somewhere
else.

Hindus and moslems come to the USA where they freely and openly
practice their religion while being fully integrated into the
economy rather forced into impoverished ghettos outside the
cities. As a result they made themselves and the rest of USA richer.

Post by Bill Sloman
Enterprising people are always trying to get someplace where they
can earn more money. That was pre-eminently the US for a quite a
while, but it isn't any longer.

As England oppressed dissenting protestants they eventually
started their own schools and economy. They were so successful
they dragged the discriminatory anglican government into the
industrial revolution.

One of the more notable examples of religious influence.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Jeroen Belleman]

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman
You do have to be motivated to emigrate. Only the most obnoxious
religious zealots got that motivated.

Since you don't understand how motivating religion can be, you're
ascribing emotions you can't understand. Do consider some Catholics were
motivated enough to let themselves be burned alive.

[....]

It never ceases to amaze me how tenaciously people can maintain
religious beliefs that were drilled into them from a young age.

Jeroen Belleman

(Coming out of such a mold myself, I also wonder how I became
an atheist...)

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 11:58:21 +0100, Jeroen Belleman

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman
You do have to be motivated to emigrate. Only the most obnoxious
religious zealots got that motivated.

Since you don't understand how motivating religion can be, you're
ascribing emotions you can't understand. Do consider some Catholics were
motivated enough to let themselves be burned alive.

[....]
It never ceases to amaze me how tenaciously people can maintain
religious beliefs that were drilled into them from a young age.
Jeroen Belleman
(Coming out of such a mold myself, I also wonder how I became
an atheist...)

Some people have spiritual feelings. Every known human society has
some sort of religion, and apparently has for 100,000 years or so.

The two great commonalities of human society are religion and warfare.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman
You do have to be motivated to emigrate. Only the most obnoxious
religious zealots got that motivated.

Since you don't understand how motivating religion can be, you're
ascribing emotions you can't understand. Do consider some Catholics were
motivated enough to let themselves be burned alive.

Post by Bill Sloman
It took a certain amount of enterprise to get themselves onto a boat,
but sensible an well-adjusted people didn't need to bother.

Nevertheless many anti-anglican protestants and catholics did hire
boats. Speaking of how unwell-adjusted anti-anglican protestants could
be, one of them, Cromwell, relieved his king of his burdensome
well-adjusted and well-coifed head.

Cromwell got sick of Charles attempts to get France to restore him to
the throne. Anti-anglicanism didn't come into it.

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman
Quite a few sensible and well adjusted people saw potential economic
advantages in emigrating - my various grandparents and great
grandparents came to Australia on that basis, but none of them needed
to evade religious persecution.

By that time dissenting protestants were no longer outlawed. Even
catholicism was eventually legalised.

My wife's great-great-grandfather was the first Catholic Antorney
General of Ireland -first Catholic Attorney General of Ireland

Michael O'Loghlen MP for Dungarvan, September 1835 to October 1836.

Clearly not outlawed.

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman
Australia hasn't got an anomalously large group of believers.
The US picked up a lot of immigrants earlier, and has.

As far as how well-adjusted Europe has become, they don't sound that
interested in religion in polls. However as a large group of believers
moved in, they have reacted a bit. Moslem believers this time. We poorly
adjusted Americans let Moslem women wear burqas, bikinis, blue gingham
dresses, whatever they want. France outlawed any obvious religious
clothes. France is so much more well-adjusted and tolerant than
religious zealotry of USA.

The burqa has a lot of room to conceal weapons, and France has had some
murderous incidents where this has been exploited.

America does seem to be oddly tolerant of nut cases with guns killing
lots of Americans. The French take precautions against it happening to
French citizens.

Post by Siri Cruise
Does Australia still run concentration camps on islands off its north
shore?

Off-shore detention in neighbouring countries for asylum seekers who try
top jump the queue in boats is being phased out. The government that
introduced the idea got voted out about two years ago, and the current
government is trying get other countries to take them. Some are hard to
place.

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman

The strongest survive and they tend to come here and to Europe. This
places Asian and other strongman states at a
disadvantage.  Their people are always trying to get somewhere else.

Hindus and Moslems come to the USA where they freely and openly practice
their religion while being fully integrated into the economy rather
forced into impoverished ghettos outside the cities. As a result they
made themselves and the rest of USA richer.

Hindus and Moslems come to Australia on the same basis, and openly
practice their religions here. They don't get forced into ghettos - we
haven't got any.

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Bill Sloman
Enterprising people are always trying to get someplace where they can
earn more money. That was pre-eminently the US for a quite a while,
but it isn't any longer.

As England oppressed dissenting protestants they eventually started
their own schools and economy. They were so successful they dragged the
discriminatory Anglican government into the industrial revolution.

Not an aspect of British economic history that I got taught about.

My father's family were Congregationalists and my mother's family
included one prominent Methodist - he got a state funeral as the
Methodism Chaplain General of Australia in 1926.

Both protestant religions were fully integrated into British economic
life. The Quakers were a bit odder, but they didn't have their own
economy either.

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:05:25 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill
Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Actually the noisy, attention-getting scum that make themselves obvious.
They do over-value their own contributions, which is what American
exceptionalism is all about.

Mm . . . no. Don't agree. Only those with the most gumption come here. That kind of
ambition yields its own rewards. Because the US, or at least, the idea of America draws
so many, we end up with what from the other end is brain drain. The strongest survive and
they tend to come here and to Europe. This places Asian and other strongman states at a
disadvantage. Their people are always trying to get somewhere else.
Swill

Read this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031656480X

[Governor Swill]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:05:25 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill
Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Actually the noisy, attention-getting scum that make themselves obvious.
They do over-value their own contributions, which is what American
exceptionalism is all about.

Mm . . . no. Don't agree. Only those with the most gumption come here. That kind of
ambition yields its own rewards. Because the US, or at least, the idea of America draws
so many, we end up with what from the other end is brain drain. The strongest survive and
they tend to come here and to Europe. This places Asian and other strongman states at a
disadvantage. Their people are always trying to get somewhere else.
Swill

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031656480X

Yeah, like I've got the time and money to read every book that gets recommended to me.

But, hey! We can discuss and share knowledge.

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:36:53 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:05:25 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill
Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Actually the noisy, attention-getting scum that make themselves obvious.
They do over-value their own contributions, which is what American
exceptionalism is all about.

Mm . . . no. Don't agree. Only those with the most gumption come here. That kind of
ambition yields its own rewards. Because the US, or at least, the idea of America draws
so many, we end up with what from the other end is brain drain. The strongest survive and
they tend to come here and to Europe. This places Asian and other strongman states at a
disadvantage. Their people are always trying to get somewhere else.
Swill

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031656480X

Yeah, like I've got the time and money to read every book that gets recommended to me.
But, hey! We can discuss and share knowledge.
Swill

Books are great. A book, a chocolate bar, a glass of water, a warm bed
and a warm woman, are better than going out to a bowling alley in the
cold rain.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:05:25 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by Governor Swill
Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Actually the noisy, attention-getting scum that make themselves obvious.
They do over-value their own contributions, which is what American
exceptionalism is all about.

Mm . . . no. Don't agree. Only those with the most gumption come here. That kind of
ambition yields its own rewards. Because the US, or at least, the idea of America draws
so many, we end up with what from the other end is brain drain. The strongest survive and
they tend to come here and to Europe. This places Asian and other strongman states at a
disadvantage. Their people are always trying to get somewhere else.
Swill

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031656480X

New York wasn't the only destination for Irish people escaping the
potato famine.

Australia got 4000 female Irish orphans

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/remembering-the-4-000-irish-famine-orphans-shipped-to-australia-1.3674497

It also got a lot of other Irish immigrants. My wife's great-grandfather
came from there and - as Attorney General of the state of Victoria -
signed the execution warrant for another Irish immigrant - Ned Kelly.

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman
New York wasn't the only destination for Irish people escaping the
potato famine.
Australia got 4000 female Irish orphans

Did you know that Ireland still has less population than it had in 1840?

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:03:09 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

"Seem to" to you. The internet will confirm whatever prejudices that
you like.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Yes. We have a lot of company founders and Nobel Prize winners that
were born elsewhere. We poach the best. And many talents are genetic.

Men and women from all over the world concentrate in US universities
and tech centers and marry and make babies. My next-door neighbors are
from Bulgaria and Rumania and met as Google employees. Their kid is
gorgeous and feisty.

[Jeroen Belleman]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:03:09 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

"Seem to" to you. The internet will confirm whatever prejudices that
you like.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Yes. We have a lot of company founders and Nobel Prize winners that
were born elsewhere. We poach the best. And many talents are genetic.
[...]

Despite having a lot of Nobel prize winners of foreign origin,
you're still only 15th on the list of prize winners normalized
to population size. What does that suggest for the indigenous
smarts?

Jeroen Belleman

[john larkin]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 17:06:18 +0100, Jeroen Belleman

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:03:09 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

"Seem to" to you. The internet will confirm whatever prejudices that
you like.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Yes. We have a lot of company founders and Nobel Prize winners that
were born elsewhere. We poach the best. And many talents are genetic.
[...]

Despite having a lot of Nobel prize winners of foreign origin,
you're still only 15th on the list of prize winners normalized
to population size. What does that suggest for the indigenous
smarts?
Jeroen Belleman

We have lots of rural farmers and lots of immigrants who don't win
Nobels. We do have a lot of tech industry. We did invent tubes and
transistors and ICs.

The US is a good place for unfunded startups with radical ideas. I
don't see a lot of smallish exotic-electronics companies in other
countries. England seems to have some.

[Governor Swill]

Post by john larkin
We have lots of rural farmers and lots of immigrants who don't win
Nobels. We do have a lot of tech industry. We did invent tubes and
transistors and ICs.
The US is a good place for unfunded startups with radical ideas. I
don't see a lot of smallish exotic-electronics companies in other
countries. England seems to have some.

Elon didn't invent the Tesla is South Africa. Alexander Graham Bell didn't invent the
telephone in Scotland. Now there's a country that values education and self discipline
(though they haven't forgotten how to party).

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Siri Cruise]

Post by john larkin
The US is a good place for unfunded startups with radical ideas. I
don't see a lot of smallish exotic-electronics companies in other
countries. England seems to have some.

It's a good place for farmers to apply USDA research to make
themselves rich feeding the world.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by john larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 17:06:18 +0100, Jeroen Belleman

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:03:09 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

"Seem to" to you. The internet will confirm whatever prejudices that
you like.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Yes. We have a lot of company founders and Nobel Prize winners that
were born elsewhere. We poach the best. And many talents are genetic.
[...]

Despite having a lot of Nobel prize winners of foreign origin,
you're still only 15th on the list of prize winners normalized
to population size. What does that suggest for the indigenous
smarts?

We have lots of rural farmers and lots of immigrants who don't win
Nobels. We do have a lot of tech industry. We did invent tubes and
transistors and ICs.

Edison invented the thermionic tube, but didn't do much with it.
Bell labs did invent the transistor, and Texas Instruments the
integrated circuit, but Texas Instruments didn't have enough sense to
hire Bob Widlar or anybody like him and stayed big but dull for a very
long time.

Post by john larkin
The US is a good place for unfunded startups with radical ideas.

The US has venture capitalists, who can afford to back 19 losers and
stay in business until they find the winner who can pay off big enough
to cover the 19 losers.

Post by john larkin
I don't see a lot of smallish exotic-electronics companies in other
countries. England seems to have some.

John Larkin wouldn't see them because he doesn't know where to look.

Australia invented WiFi and makes a bundle out of the royalties on the
patents.

https://www.naa.gov.au/visit-us/events-and-exhibitions/disrupt-persist-invent/wi-fi

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by john larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 17:06:18 +0100, Jeroen Belleman

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:03:09 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

"Seem to" to you. The internet will confirm whatever prejudices that
you like.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Yes. We have a lot of company founders and Nobel Prize winners that
were born elsewhere. We poach the best. And many talents are genetic.
[...]

Despite having a lot of Nobel prize winners of foreign origin,
you're still only 15th on the list of prize winners normalized
to population size. What does that suggest for the indigenous
smarts?

We have lots of rural farmers and lots of immigrants who don't win
Nobels. We do have a lot of tech industry. We did invent tubes and
transistors and ICs.

Edison invented the thermionic tube, but didn't do much with it.
Bell labs did invent the transistor,

Uh, yeah, they kinda did.

Post by Bill Sloman
and Texas Instruments the integrated circuit,

Uh, yeah, they kinda did.

Post by Bill Sloman
but Texas Instruments didn't have enough sense to
hire Bob Widlar or anybody like him and stayed big but dull for a very
long time.

Post by john larkin
The US is a good place for unfunded startups with radical ideas.

The US has venture capitalists, who can afford to back 19 losers and
stay in business until they find the winner who can pay off big enough
to cover the 19 losers.

They can afford this because?

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by john larkin
I don't see a lot of smallish exotic-electronics companies in other
countries. England seems to have some.

John Larkin wouldn't see them because he doesn't know where to look.
Australia invented WiFi and makes a bundle out of the royalties on the
patents.
https://www.naa.gov.au/visit-us/events-and-exhibitions/disrupt-persist-invent/wi-fi

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by john larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 17:06:18 +0100, Jeroen Belleman

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:03:09 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

"Seem to" to you. The internet will confirm whatever prejudices that
you like.

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Yes. We have a lot of company founders and Nobel Prize winners that
were born elsewhere. We poach the best. And many talents are genetic.
[...]

Despite having a lot of Nobel prize winners of foreign origin,
you're still only 15th on the list of prize winners normalized
to population size. What does that suggest for the indigenous
smarts?

We have lots of rural farmers and lots of immigrants who don't win
Nobels. We do have a lot of tech industry. We did invent tubes and
transistors and ICs.

Edison invented the thermionic tube, but didn't do much with it.
Bell labs did invent the transistor,

Uh, yeah, they kinda did.

Post by Bill Sloman
and Texas Instruments the integrated circuit,

Uh, yeah, they kinda did.

Post by Bill Sloman
but Texas Instruments didn't have enough sense to
hire Bob Widlar or anybody like him and stayed big but dull for a very
long time.

Post by john larkin
The US is a good place for unfunded startups with radical ideas.

The US has venture capitalists, who can afford to back 19 losers and
stay in business until they find the winner who can pay off big enough
to cover the 19 losers.

They can afford this because?

The US goes in for economic inequality on a large scale. The rich are
very rich.

https://theconversation.com/why-inequality-is-growing-in-the-us-and-around-the-world-191642

There are countries with worse income inequality, but they tend to be
places where the poor are very poor. The US is a prosperous but
remarkably unequal country, so quite a few people have enough money to
be venture capitalists.

<snip>

[Siri Cruise]

Post by John Larkin
Yes. We have a lot of company founders and Nobel Prize winners that
were born elsewhere. We poach the best. And many talents are genetic.
Men and women from all over the world concentrate in US universities
and tech centers and marry and make babies. My next-door neighbors are
from Bulgaria and Rumania and met as Google employees. Their kid is
gorgeous and feisty.

Unfortunately republicans shut down many foreign students at
american universities because of 911. Before they educated
themselves at their expense and stayed here to innovate and pay
taxes here. Now other countries have been building their own
universities and enticing their young to contribute to the homelands.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:03:09 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

"Seem to" to you. The internet will confirm whatever prejudices that
you like.

Less effectively if you can think more clearly than John Larkin.

Post by John Larkin

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
The US has long been the condensate of the smart, the rebellious, the
ambitious, and sometimes the criminal fractions of other countries.

Which is why we succeed over the long haul - we get these folks via immigration. They are
the cream of the global crop.

Yes. We have a lot of company founders and Nobel Prize winners that
were born elsewhere. We poach the best. And many talents are genetic.

They are heritable, but Robert Plomin makes the point that there a
typically thousands of single nucleotide polymorphisms involved.

You only get 50% of your genome from each parent so they don't get
passed down as a chunk.

https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262039161/blueprint/

Post by John Larkin
Men and women from all over the world concentrate in US universities
and tech centers and marry and make babies. My next-door neighbors are
from Bulgaria and Rumania and met as Google employees. Their kid is
gorgeous and feisty.

And promising, but not a carbon copy of either parent.

US universities aren't the only ones attracting immigrants from less
well off countries. My wife's graduate students in Nijmegen also came
from all over. One post-doc from the US ended up marrying an Australian
and has two very bright daughter in Toronto (where she's now a professor
- we tried to lure her to Australia, but didn't succeed).

[Governor Swill]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 00:03:09 -0400, Governor Swill

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

"Seem to" to you. The internet will confirm whatever prejudices that
you like.

Less effectively if you can think more clearly than John Larkin.

Who is John Larkin?

Swill
--
"Eventually he turns on everyone, and soon it will be you and then the entire country."
- Anthony Scaramucci

https://www.gocomics.com/robrogers/2024/03/28

https://www.forwardparty.com/ . .

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Governor Swill

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by John Larkin

Post by Governor Swill

Post by John Larkin
I think Putin is happy to get rid of the troublemakers who think. He
wants the population to be dumb and patriotic and loyal.

Modern Republicans, especially the hard line rightists, seem to have the same view.

"Seem to" to you. The internet will confirm whatever prejudices that
you like.

Less effectively if you can think more clearly than John Larkin.

Who is John Larkin?

The most prolific poster on sci.electronics.design over the past twenty
years or so. He has been posting here for longer than I have.

The quality of his posts is indifferent, but there have been a lot of them.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:42:43 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

The near-trillionaires in the USA started as amateurs. Gates, Jobs,
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Brin. I don't think commie countries breed
people like that and, if they had some and they get too powerful, they
tend to disappear or fall out of windows.

Communist countries do breed the occasional very clever person, just as
many per million as the US. If they are that clever they can exploit
their ability to do interesting things, and change society (possibly for
the better). The nature of the change will reflect where the society
wants to go.

They won't end up disappearing or falling out of windows - these are
clever people and they won't expose themselves to unnecessary risks.
Baruch Spinoza died in his own bed, despite thoroughly subverting the
religious power structure that were dominant when he was alive.

Post by John Larkin
The Party can't permit anyone else to have power.
And The Party doesn't invent things.

But they will exploit other people's inventions, and frequently won't
recognise the long term consequences. The Roman Catholic Church
encouraged education, which eventually vastly reduced its influence.

Post by John Larkin
Of the 10 richest people in the world, 9 are Americans. And they
didn't start with capital, they started with ideas.

But in an environment where lots of other people had capital, and well
established mechanisms to invest it in good ideas.

Most of the Americans on your list were exploiting the computers the US
military had subsidised and the world wide web that grew out of ARPANET.

Tim Berners-Lee invented the world wide web while at CERN in 1989, but
he hasn't become a trillionaire in consequence.

[Dave Yeo]

Post by John Larkin
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:42:43 -0700, Siri Cruise

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

The near-trillionaires in the USA started as amateurs. Gates, Jobs,
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Brin. I don't think commie countries breed
people like that and, if they had some and they get too powerful, they
tend to disappear or fall out of windows. The Party can't permit
anyone else to have power. And The Party doesn't invent things.
Of the 10 richest people in the world, 9 are Americans. And they
didn't start with capital, they started with ideas.

Generally they did have access to capital as well as other connections.
Consider Gates, million dollar trust fund in 1960's dollars and a well
connected family that put him in a position to dig source code out of a
dumpster and have access to a computer to get started on basic as well
as connect him with a big IBM honcho, "my son could do that", as well as
a background in banking lawyership, which helps explain his contracts
which were one of the main reasons for his success.
Jobs was as you describe. Many of the others were somewhere in between
with some wealth and family connections. Some I have no idea.
Dave

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, but not with anywhere near the resolution. Chinese fab is a couple
generations behind the highest resolution available in Taiwan. This gives
them a lot of motivation into trying to get the best speed possible out of
what they have, through architectual optimization.

But_are_ they made in mainland China? Another mainly state-funded
Chinese company is making x86 CPUs and they've usually been made by

What is PRC's intent? If they want to compete with US designed and
Taiwan made processors, they are going to need engineers as good
as America and Taiwan.

For the countries that the USA doesn't like and therefore doesn't
sell to, it's not hard to compete. Russia has apparantly started
buying Chinese CPUs lately for that reason, and North Korea has
probably been doing that for a long time. But it's mainly about
the PRC securing their own supply of the chips.

Post by Siri Cruise
We got to the moon and back with computers that would embarrass a
watch. If all PRC wants is a source of non-embargoable processors,
the only thing blocking them is their own crippling corruption.
They can get download Linux. If they just want basic program
loaders and IO drivers, that's not that hard. Just copy old DOS.

Indeed, which is presumably why their government departments are
already switching/switched over to the PRC's home-designed if not
home-made processors even though they're not up to the standards
of Intel or AMD's top models. There's no need for all the extra
processing power of western-model processors for typical office
tasks, except to push through the bloat of poorly written software,
which can be avoided easily enough, especially if one doesn't use
modern M$ products.

Workers of China unite against the decadent speed of foreign
computer processors! Or something like that...