AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing

Post by Jan Panteltje
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

You are talking of the USA?

I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
work, and people have to use AM.

It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Jan Panteltje

2024-05-02 08:02:20 UTC

On a sunny day (Thu, 2 May 2024 08:28:35 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."

You are talking of the USA?

Yes USA

Post by Carlos E.R.
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
work, and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

I think most if not all high power AM medium wave stations are gone now here in the Netherlands.
Lots of FM stations though.

All I hear at home on the AM medium wave band is interference from wallwarts
and maybe solar panels, what not..
Electric cars would create more interference...

Carlos E.R.

2024-05-02 08:22:25 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Thu, 2 May 2024 08:28:35 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."

You are talking of the USA?

Yes USA

I think most if not all high power AM medium wave stations are gone now here in the Netherlands.
Lots of FM stations though.
All I hear at home on the AM medium wave band is interference from wallwarts
and maybe solar panels, what not..
Electric cars would create more interference...

The other day I had to tune the station I was listening to in AM instead
of FM, because the car would not find the local station or it did not
exist. And the area is very populated (south-east of Spain).

Not the first time.

Yes, I might tune it on internet instead, but it is a pain. Stations
want you to use their own app instead of a generic one, and the generic
often fails (probably because they change the url). I refuse to use the
specific app that requires us to login, so the station can track its
listeners by name.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

RodionGork

2024-05-03 06:24:39 UTC

Post by Jan Panteltje
I think most if not all high power AM medium wave stations are gone now

here in the Netherlands

My meek observation - even with low-quality handheld MW/LW 30-year-old
receiver, when I went
out of the house to the nearest local park at the evening (essentially
100-200 meters from large
and radio-noisy buildings etc) - I hear broadcasting from Hungaria (MW),
from Poland (LW) and BBC (LW) - all of them being 1000-1500 km away.
Quality is of no much practical interest though, but
in Netherlands they should be heard much better and probably in daylight
too.

And SW bands are pretty buzzing - mostly with Chinese stations (though not
only in Chinese language) - but as there are really many of them and they
work within specific hours they are more difficult to identify.

--
to email me substitute github with gmail please

Don Y

2024-05-02 19:34:21 UTC

Post by Carlos E.R.
You are talking of the USA?
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not work,
and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

It's not just location.

There are lots of ways to deliver a message (announcement) to people
wirelessly -- AM, FM, FM-HD, TV, Satellite radio, cell phone, "air raid"
sirens, etc.

But, you have to think of which they are likely to be able to receive
AND which are easiest to "support".

You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability". But, you are ultimately
reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
profits, etc.

We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
most of the transmitters are located). Imagine the consequences of
an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
are located. Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.

Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
of CALLERS! The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?

AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
lots of other technology to keep it operational. And, the receivers
can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).

Carlos E.R.

2024-05-04 10:23:51 UTC

Post by Carlos E.R.
You are talking of the USA?
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does
not work, and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

It's not just location.
There are lots of ways to deliver a message (announcement) to people
wirelessly -- AM, FM, FM-HD, TV, Satellite radio, cell phone, "air raid"
sirens, etc.
But, you have to think of which they are likely to be able to receive
AND which are easiest to "support".
You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability". But, you are ultimately
reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
profits, etc.
We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
most of the transmitters are located). Imagine the consequences of
an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
are located. Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.
Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
of CALLERS! The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?

The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.

Post by Don Y
AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
lots of other technology to keep it operational. And, the receivers
can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).

I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.

I saw some electronic magazine publishing one such radio made using the
motor from a floppy drive (if memory serves) as generator.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Don Y

2024-05-04 10:33:50 UTC

Post by Don Y
You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability". But, you are ultimately
reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
profits, etc.
We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
most of the transmitters are located). Imagine the consequences of
an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
are located. Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.
Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
of CALLERS! The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?

The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.

Especially if the disaster is "local" to the folks you want to inform.

I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.

I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds. It takes about 5 minutes
to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.

But, it is large-ish.

It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!) As the spring mechanism
will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just
tolerate the bad battery!

Post by Carlos E.R.
I saw some electronic magazine publishing one such radio made using the motor
from a floppy drive (if memory serves) as generator.

John Larkin

2024-05-04 11:40:27 UTC

The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.

Especially if the disaster is "local" to the folks you want to inform.

I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.

I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds. It takes about 5 minutes
to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.
But, it is large-ish.
It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!) As the spring mechanism
will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just
tolerate the bad battery!

Post by Carlos E.R.
I saw some electronic magazine publishing one such radio made using the motor
from a floppy drive (if memory serves) as generator.

A lithium battery is a more sensible idea for an emergency AM radio.

People keep inventing silly micropower energy-harvesting things, when
a Tadiran battery will last your lifetime.

Or just keep a bunch of AA batteries in your fridge.

Ralph Mowery

2024-05-04 18:44:55 UTC

Post by John Larkin
A lithium battery is a more sensible idea for an emergency AM radio.
People keep inventing silly micropower energy-harvesting things, when
a Tadiran battery will last your lifetime.
Or just keep a bunch of AA batteries in your fridge.

I like the very small ( around 750 watts ) generator that Harbor Freight
and a few other plaves sold. I bought one on sale for under $ 100 a few
years back. There are also propane versions. Tey run a long time on
very little fues.

If they did not cost so much Those solar cell recharable power stations
are a good idea.

Carlos E.R.

2024-05-04 20:29:46 UTC

The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.

Especially if the disaster is "local" to the folks you want to inform.

Or takes out the exchange, which controls a large region. Depending on
the population, 50 to 500 Km radius, I think.

I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.

I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds. It takes about 5 minutes
to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.
But, it is large-ish.
It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!) As the spring
mechanism
will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just
tolerate the bad battery!

That's a bad design, that the battery of such a thing can not be
replaced "easily".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Don Y

2024-05-04 21:55:46 UTC

I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.

I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds. It takes about 5 minutes
to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.
But, it is large-ish.
It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!) As the spring mechanism
will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just
tolerate the bad battery!

That's a bad design, that the battery of such a thing can not be replaced
"easily".

I suspect it is a rechargeable cell that the designers thought
would "never" need to be replaced.

The fact that it works *despite* the state of the cell suggests
SOME forethought was put into the design. The mechanism being
able to release enough mechanical energy to the generator over
such a long period of time without relying on the instantaneous
energy created by hand-cranking a generator and storing it *in*
that cell.

(This is how many "emergency flashlights" work -- and FAIL
to work, over time; relying on the cell to remain functional!)

Joe Gwinn

2024-05-02 22:32:19 UTC

On Thu, 2 May 2024 08:28:35 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

You are talking of the USA?
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
work, and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

It does happen in the US, particularly in rural areas and/or
mountainous areas, because the short-wave stuff (FM band and above,
including TV bands) is line of sight, while AM follows the ground over
the mountain into the valley, and so on. This effect is quite strong,
and many rural communities in valleys paid to have a repeater atop the
highest local mountain, to send the FM and TV signals down into the
valley. Which doesn't work so well from a car driving through the
mountains.

I had a friend many years ago who lived in rural Virginia, and had the
valley problem, and some makes and models of car didn't have good
enough AM radios, and/or had too much interference from the ignition
system.

Joe Gwinn

Carlos E.R.

2024-05-04 10:26:15 UTC

Post by Joe Gwinn
On Thu, 2 May 2024 08:28:35 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

You are talking of the USA?
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
work, and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

It does happen in the US, particularly in rural areas and/or
mountainous areas, because the short-wave stuff (FM band and above,
including TV bands) is line of sight, while AM follows the ground over
the mountain into the valley, and so on. This effect is quite strong,
and many rural communities in valleys paid to have a repeater atop the
highest local mountain, to send the FM and TV signals down into the
valley. Which doesn't work so well from a car driving through the
mountains.
I had a friend many years ago who lived in rural Virginia, and had the
valley problem, and some makes and models of car didn't have good
enough AM radios, and/or had too much interference from the ignition
system.

I wonder if modern ignition is better than old for this. I mean, now
there is a coil per plug, so that the distribution works at low voltage.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Martin Brown

2024-05-02 11:20:53 UTC

This is one of those bonkers US lawmakers laws. I expect the geriatric
senator proposing it has a crystal set manufacturer in his state.

They will be demanding compulsory use of semaphore next.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?

Most in car radios are generally FM or today DAB/FM. AM never really got
on well with the spark transmitter under the bonnet of most petrol cars.
When I worked in radio astronomy all of our cars were doctored by the
local RF electronics guru to help suppress vehicle RFI on site. That had
the side effect of making AM radio much more useful.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

More likely the antediluvian politicians wanting stone age technology.

To some extent they *DO* have a point for AM/FM analogue vs DAB digital.

A typical DAB radio in an emergency situation with no mains power will
last about 8 hours on a full set of batteries. A basic AM/FM radio will
last for about a month used 8 hours a day under those conditions.

--
Martin Brown

Jan Panteltje

2024-05-02 12:35:31 UTC

On a sunny day (Thu, 2 May 2024 12:20:53 +0100) it happened Martin Brown

This is one of those bonkers US lawmakers laws. I expect the geriatric
senator proposing it has a crystal set manufacturer in his state.
They will be demanding compulsory use of semaphore next.

Post by Jan Panteltje
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?

Post by Jan Panteltje
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

More likely the antediluvian politicians wanting stone age technology.
To some extent they *DO* have a point for AM/FM analogue vs DAB digital.
A typical DAB radio in an emergency situation with no mains power will
last about 8 hours on a full set of batteries. A basic AM/FM radio will
last for about a month used 8 hours a day under those conditions.

I have a simple Tecsun PL360 AM FM radio,
measure about 60 mA at 4.2V with 3 1900 mAh Eneloop batteries in series
So 1900 / 60 makes about 31.6 hours...
With volume low.
My big Tecsun PL600 AM / FM / SSB shortwave / mediumwave / longwave radio runs on 4 1900 mAh Eneloop cells
and draws about 47 mA with backlight off.
So that makes 1900 / 47 is about 40.4 hours.
A month is a bit longer...
But on AM medium wave you could use a crystal radio and that would last forever...

I have some other small rechargeable FM radios from ebay, gave one away to somebody for her kids a while back.
Maybe those use less power, but have a lot less battery capacity, last a few hours at most on a charge.

John Larkin

2024-05-02 15:18:47 UTC

If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
listening to the radio all the time or die.

Martin Brown

2024-05-02 16:03:03 UTC

If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
listening to the radio all the time or die.

Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.

Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.

AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used
sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.

--
Martin Brown

John Larkin

2024-05-02 17:04:11 UTC

On Thu, 2 May 2024 17:03:03 +0100, Martin Brown

If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
listening to the radio all the time or die.

Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.
Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.
AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used
sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.

The alerts here are fast and brief, for traumatic events, tornadoes,
kidnappings, whatever. Listening to the radio hourly won't catch them.

Phone alerts make more sense. AM radio is repulsive here, and FM is
not much better, so listening constantly for an emergency alert
doesn't make sense.

A battery powered AM radio is useful during a sustained emergency
without power, like a hurricane or earthquake, assuming that the AM
stations have power.

Martin Brown

2024-05-02 19:11:47 UTC

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 2 May 2024 17:03:03 +0100, Martin Brown

Post by John Larkin
If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
listening to the radio all the time or die.

Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.
Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.
AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used
sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.

The alerts here are fast and brief, for traumatic events, tornadoes,
kidnappings, whatever. Listening to the radio hourly won't catch them.

We don't have serious tornadoes or anything like the endemic violence of
the USA here. Most UK car radios these days have FM RDS which sees local
radio station traffic news RDS tagged automagically for updates of
crashes, traffic congestion and major incidents in the region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System

That breaks into whatever you happen to be listening to CD, radio, USB
stick or streaming internet. A few commercial stations abuse it and
"forget" to send the end of RDS break code or have really annoying disco
beat thump thump thump sounds over their traffic news announcers voice.

Post by John Larkin
Phone alerts make more sense. AM radio is repulsive here, and FM is
not much better, so listening constantly for an emergency alert
doesn't make sense.

UK also has phone alerts. They tested the system a while back. I got
mine about 40s *before* the alleged transmit time (not impressed) but my
wife with her Apple iPhone never got one at all! Probably due to the
network she was on rather than a serious attempt to cull iPhone users.

Post by John Larkin
A battery powered AM radio is useful during a sustained emergency
without power, like a hurricane or earthquake, assuming that the AM
stations have power.

Analogue really has the edge when it comes to low power frugal radio
reception in adverse conditions - power consumption is miniscule.
Sustained emergency is becoming an increasing risk with tensions in the
Middle East and Putin's Russia looking at who to invade next.

--
Martin Brown

john larkin

2024-05-02 19:56:17 UTC

On Thu, 2 May 2024 20:11:47 +0100, Martin Brown

Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 2 May 2024 17:03:03 +0100, Martin Brown

Post by John Larkin
If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
listening to the radio all the time or die.

Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.
Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.
AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used
sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.

The alerts here are fast and brief, for traumatic events, tornadoes,
kidnappings, whatever. Listening to the radio hourly won't catch them.

I don't see any endemic violence, but then I stay out of rowdy pubs
and bad neighborhoods at 2AM. The big crime threats around here are
occasional double parking and Tesla charging cords on sidewalks. Not
many people waving swords around.

(Lots of construction is done without permits, another heinous crime,
but we ignore that... live and let live.)

I did experience one tornado and many hurricanes when I lived in New
Orleans. On Mardi Gras Day, the burglarly rate went down, because all
the criminals were in the French Quarter partying too.

Post by Martin Brown
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System
That breaks into whatever you happen to be listening to CD, radio, USB
stick or streaming internet. A few commercial stations abuse it and
"forget" to send the end of RDS break code or have really annoying disco
beat thump thump thump sounds over their traffic news announcers voice.

Post by John Larkin
Phone alerts make more sense. AM radio is repulsive here, and FM is
not much better, so listening constantly for an emergency alert
doesn't make sense.

Post by John Larkin
A battery powered AM radio is useful during a sustained emergency
without power, like a hurricane or earthquake, assuming that the AM
stations have power.

We might get a 30-second warning of an earthquake, which won't help
much. The real life-saver would be a warning of a tsunami, which might
wipe out the west coasts of Oregon and Washington and Canada. Even a
couple of minutes heads-up would let people get to higher ground.

Firestorm-type forest fires deserve warnings too. Hazards are caused
by people building death-trap towns in badly-managed forests.

Life spans have more than doubled since 1900, so I shouldn't complain.

Ralph Mowery

2024-05-02 15:42:19 UTC

This is a US law in the making.
Those electric cars generate a lot of radio interferance that can be
mostly eliminated but it will cost the car makers money to do that.

They remind me of a car a friend had about 50 years ago. He replaced
the resistor wiring with regular wire. You could tell when he was about
3 blocks away by the way the TV set was messing up. When he was about a
block away most TV sets would be totally useless. This was back when
most all TV sets were using outside antennas as there was not much if
any cable around.

I hate to think of what it would be like for my hobby of han radio if
there were many EVs on the road. Would probalby make most frequencies
useless.

There is a local radio station that plays songs of the 50 to 70 era that
I like to listen to when in the car if I am not using the recordings on
the USB drive.

John Larkin

2024-05-03 15:43:33 UTC

AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the
universe.

I wonder what fraction of AM transmitter power winds up in receiver
front-ends. Surely way below 1e-9. Electricity keeps getting more
expensive so operating an AM station may be bad business.

What I hear is bad music, dumb politics, and very boring preaching.

I had a friend who was a DJ in an AM station. It was a very boring,
low pay job. He killed himself.

Carlos E.R.

2024-05-04 10:29:24 UTC

Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.

Post by John Larkin
I wonder what fraction of AM transmitter power winds up in receiver
front-ends. Surely way below 1e-9. Electricity keeps getting more
expensive so operating an AM station may be bad business.

AM at MW can work without batteries, with a totally passive receiver and
high impedance headphones.

...

--
Cheers, Carlos.

John Larkin

2024-05-04 11:27:57 UTC

On Sat, 4 May 2024 12:29:24 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.

AM at MW can work without batteries, with a totally passive receiver and
high impedance headphones.
...

I suspect I can light an LED from local RF fields. Gotta try that some
time. Free illumination!

Ralph Mowery

2024-05-04 18:39:24 UTC

Post by John Larkin
I suspect I can light an LED from local RF fields. Gotta try that some
time. Free illumination!

I do not know about the LEDs but the older florescence tubes would light
up if close enough to an transmitter.

I have seen plans for a simple transistor receiver that was hooked up to
another antenna that was used to power it if close enough to the local
transmitter.

John Larkin

2024-05-04 20:06:59 UTC

On Sat, 4 May 2024 14:39:24 -0400, Ralph Mowery

Post by Ralph Mowery

Post by John Larkin
I suspect I can light an LED from local RF fields. Gotta try that some
time. Free illumination!

I do not know about the LEDs but the older florescence tubes would light
up if close enough to an transmitter.
I have seen plans for a simple transistor receiver that was hooked up to
another antenna that was used to power it if close enough to the local
transmitter.

A crystal set can be very loud in a city, near an AM station. Must be
milliwatts with a longwire antenna. Some clever circuit might harvest
several stations.

A good LED is visible in room light at 1 uA, just over a uW. And
barely visible in the dark at 1 nA.

Jeroen Belleman

2024-05-04 11:43:09 UTC

Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.

[...]

I'm pretty sure that the power consumed by modern telecoms
infrastructure exceeds that of broadcast radio manyfold.

Jeroen Belleman

Carlos E.R.

2024-05-04 20:39:11 UTC

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.

[...]
I'm pretty sure that the power consumed by modern telecoms
infrastructure exceeds that of broadcast radio manyfold.

An AM or LW transmitter can be a megawat.

Google:

Long Wave Radio These wavelengths travel very long distances and
generally use much higher power than medium wave, or FM and DAB. Typical
power levels are 500 kilowatts, though some stations transmit with up to
2 megawatts (two million watts).

Long Wave - World of Radio
worldofradio.co.uk
https://worldofradio.co.uk › LongWave
https://worldofradio.co.uk/LongWave.html

A 5ESSS exchange we were setting up took only a few KW, 2 or 5, measured
when we tested the batteries. Long distance only, just a dozen local lines.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Jeroen Belleman

2024-05-05 18:51:42 UTC

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology,
but to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is
needed.

[...]
I'm pretty sure that the power consumed by modern telecoms
infrastructure exceeds that of broadcast radio manyfold.

An AM or LW transmitter can be a megawat.
Long Wave Radio These wavelengths travel very long distances and
generally use much higher power than medium wave, or FM and DAB. Typical
power levels are 500 kilowatts, though some stations transmit with up to
2 megawatts (two million watts).
Long Wave - World of Radio
worldofradio.co.uk
https://worldofradio.co.uk › LongWave
https://worldofradio.co.uk/LongWave.html
A 5ESSS exchange we were setting up took only a few KW, 2 or 5, measured
when we tested the batteries. Long distance only, just a dozen local lines.

Every cell tower consumes kilowatts and you need lots of them to
reach the same number as a single AM MW or LW station.

Jeroen Belleman

Liz Tuddenham

2024-05-05 06:54:49 UTC