iPhone battery replacement

Post by Don Y
The battery in SWMBO's iPhone has swelled. Not surprising as it
is ANCIENT (6s).
She is asking for it to be replaced: "I *like* that phone!"
Is this actually worth the effort, given that batteries are likely
knock-offs (dubious quality) and disassembly/assembly is undoubtedly
a lesson in fumble-fingers? And, what's the likely life expectancy
of a "new" battery?
I've offered her either of two phones that I use but "they're too big".

Exactly what is it that she has?

Apple likely has a phone of that approximate size.

Joe Gwinn

Don Y

2024-06-01 21:51:23 UTC

Post by Don Y
The battery in SWMBO's iPhone has swelled. Not surprising as it
is ANCIENT (6s).

---------------^^

Post by Don Y
She is asking for it to be replaced: "I *like* that phone!"
Is this actually worth the effort, given that batteries are likely
knock-offs (dubious quality) and disassembly/assembly is undoubtedly
a lesson in fumble-fingers? And, what's the likely life expectancy
of a "new" battery?
I've offered her either of two phones that I use but "they're too big".

Exactly what is it that she has?
Apple likely has a phone of that approximate size.

Or, use one of the other phones, here. I see very little difference
in size, weight, etc. "Creature of habit"

(I'm also not keen on having to field her comments as to "Why X doesn't
work like it USED to...")

(sigh) The land line was SO much better (for our uses). But, they just
aren't maintaining the (below grade) copper any more.

[We had a pair of uniformed officers show up, unannounced, in the wee
hours of the morning -- hands on holsters -- inquiring who had called
"911" from our residence. "Huh? No one." They claimed that they
often get false alarms from neighborhoods with buried services... as if
a series of snap-crackle-pops appeared to be 911 dialpulsed (I'm not
quite sure how that translates into 911 and not 823 or 645 or 15276...)]

Joe Gwinn

2024-06-01 22:05:40 UTC

Post by Don Y
The battery in SWMBO's iPhone has swelled. Not surprising as it
is ANCIENT (6s).

---------------^^

Exactly what is it that she has?
Apple likely has a phone of that approximate size.

Or, use one of the other phones, here. I see very little difference
in size, weight, etc. "Creature of habit"
(I'm also not keen on having to field her comments as to "Why X doesn't
work like it USED to...")
(sigh) The land line was SO much better (for our uses). But, they just
aren't maintaining the (below grade) copper any more.
[We had a pair of uniformed officers show up, unannounced, in the wee
hours of the morning -- hands on holsters -- inquiring who had called
"911" from our residence. "Huh? No one." They claimed that they
often get false alarms from neighborhoods with buried services... as if
a series of snap-crackle-pops appeared to be 911 dialpulsed (I'm not
quite sure how that translates into 911 and not 823 or 645 or 15276...)]

They don't need to. Only 911 causes a detectable response.

Joe Gwinn

Don Y

2024-06-01 23:00:13 UTC

Post by Don Y
The battery in SWMBO's iPhone has swelled. Not surprising as it
is ANCIENT (6s).

---------------^^

Exactly what is it that she has?
Apple likely has a phone of that approximate size.

Or, use one of the other phones, here. I see very little difference
in size, weight, etc. "Creature of habit"
(I'm also not keen on having to field her comments as to "Why X doesn't
work like it USED to...")
(sigh) The land line was SO much better (for our uses). But, they just
aren't maintaining the (below grade) copper any more.
[We had a pair of uniformed officers show up, unannounced, in the wee
hours of the morning -- hands on holsters -- inquiring who had called
"911" from our residence. "Huh? No one." They claimed that they
often get false alarms from neighborhoods with buried services... as if
a series of snap-crackle-pops appeared to be 911 dialpulsed (I'm not
quite sure how that translates into 911 and not 823 or 645 or 15276...)]

They don't need to. Only 911 causes a detectable response.

211 gives us access to community services
311 for city gummit
411 directory assistance
711 TDD relay
811 blue stake (utility locating)

Of course, only 911 would cause someone to appear at your home.

I question how the correct dialpulse timing is detected as a
rotary dial phone imposes a specific make-break ratio and pulse
rate.

Bertrand Sindri

2024-06-06 03:21:18 UTC

Post by Don Y
[We had a pair of uniformed officers show up, unannounced, in the wee
hours of the morning -- hands on holsters -- inquiring who had called
"911" from our residence. "Huh? No one." They claimed that they often
get false alarms from neighborhoods with buried services... as if a
series of snap-crackle-pops appeared to be 911 dialpulsed (I'm not quite
sure how that translates into 911 and not 823 or 645 or 15276...)]

They don't need to. Only 911 causes a detectable response.

211 gives us access to community services
311 for city gummit
411 directory assistance
711 TDD relay
811 blue stake (utility locating)
Of course, only 911 would cause someone to appear at your home.
I question how the correct dialpulse timing is detected as a
rotary dial phone imposes a specific make-break ratio and pulse
rate.

Blame this on the lawyers. To avoid issues of liability, if the telephone
switch detects a pulse pattern that might plausably be interpreted as an
attempt to "dial" 911, then the phone company forwards your info on to the
911 call center.

Once the 911 call center has become involved, then the police have to handle
it as if it were a request for emergency services.

Don Y

2024-06-06 12:34:58 UTC

Post by Don Y
I question how the correct dialpulse timing is detected as a
rotary dial phone imposes a specific make-break ratio and pulse
rate.

But a dial-pulse needs to be an actual make-break of the loop, not just
"line noise". Would outpulsing at, for example, 400Hz ever be considered
a legitimate signal? (IIRC, dial-pulse rate was ~10Hz; are there "natural
phenomena that even approach that with any sort of regularity?)

And, why would the "signal" suddenly disappear and not be a regular happening?
I.e., why only one visit in 30 years and not once a month?

Post by Bertrand Sindri
Once the 911 call center has become involved, then the police have to handle
it as if it were a request for emergency services.

Bertrand Sindri

2024-06-08 16:49:11 UTC

I question how the correct dialpulse timing is detected as a rotary
dial phone imposes a specific make-break ratio and pulse rate.

But a dial-pulse needs to be an actual make-break of the loop, not
just "line noise".

Typical Don Y, thinking like an engineer. Did you miss the word
"lawyers" above? Once *lawyers* are involved, all logic and all
engineering regimen goes right out the window. Lawyers operate on
"what could a potential jury of laymen be convinced to believe". So
from the business's lawyer department (who's job it is to protect the
phone company from being sued for negligence [among other things]) if
"line noise" could be convincingly argued to a jury of laymen as an
"attempt to contact emergency services" such that the jury would find
the phone company liable for not routing the call to the 911 center,
then indeed many patterns of "line noise" will be interpreted as an
attempt to dial 911.

Post by Don Y
Would outpulsing at, for example, 400Hz ever be considered a
legitimate signal?

If the defense lawyers thought a prosecutor could convince a jury of
laymen that such a signal was an attempt at contacting 911 in a trial,
then yes, it would be considered legitimate signal.

Post by Don Y
(IIRC, dial-pulse rate was ~10Hz; are there "natural phenomena that
even approach that with any sort of regularity?)

Engineer: The dial pulse standard is 10Hz ± 4%. So we will make the
switch recognize 10Hz ± 8% and reject everything else.

Lawyer: Not good enough. Someone in peril, attempting to "dial" 911 by
flashing the hook switch manually [1] will never meet a 10Hz ± 8%
standard, you instead need to recognize just about everything that
might plausibly look like 9 1 1 in order to protect us from being found
guilty of negligence in a wrongful death suit and have to pay out $X
billion in settlements.

Post by Don Y
And, why would the "signal" suddenly disappear and not be a regular
happening? I.e., why only one visit in 30 years and not once a
month?

Neither you, nor I, can possibly answer that question.

[1] Presume they are trapped behind flames in a part of the building
with only one of those usually incoming "dial-less" phones, all they can
do is flash the hook in that situation.

Don Y

2024-06-08 18:33:02 UTC

I question how the correct dialpulse timing is detected as a rotary
dial phone imposes a specific make-break ratio and pulse rate.

But a dial-pulse needs to be an actual make-break of the loop, not
just "line noise".

Then how can they have decided that this HASN'T occurred at any
other time on the same pair -- over a thirty year interval?

Nothing REMOTELY able of being argued to a jury that it was an
"out-of-spec" attempt at dialing 911?

I.e., there is SOME criteria that they have used to determine
THIS line noise could be argued as an attempt at 911. But, all
of the other line noise wasn't.

[I complained of a bad connection and had a lineman come out
and spend half an hour monitoring the line. "Looks good to
me!" Until, suddenly, you couldn't carry on a spoken conversation
over the line: "Whoa! What just happened?" Yet, no uniformed
officers...]

Post by Don Y
Would outpulsing at, for example, 400Hz ever be considered a
legitimate signal?

If the defense lawyers thought a prosecutor could convince a jury of
laymen that such a signal was an attempt at contacting 911 in a trial,
then yes, it would be considered legitimate signal.

Post by Don Y
(IIRC, dial-pulse rate was ~10Hz; are there "natural phenomena that
even approach that with any sort of regularity?)

Engineer: The dial pulse standard is 10Hz ± 4%. So we will make the
switch recognize 10Hz ± 8% and reject everything else.
Lawyer: Not good enough. Someone in peril, attempting to "dial" 911 by
flashing the hook switch manually [1] will never meet a 10Hz ± 8%
standard, you instead need to recognize just about everything that
might plausibly look like 9 1 1 in order to protect us from being found
guilty of negligence in a wrongful death suit and have to pay out $X
billion in settlements.

And, that has NEVER happened on this line, previously. So, how good is
THAT criteria?

Similarly, all lines recognize dial-pulse even if equipped with a DTMF
stationset. So, why don't we hear of friends and neighbors getting
similar visits? An absence of noise on those lines (buried in the
same soil with the same drainage properties and precipitation patterns)?

I.e., whatever criteria are used, it obviously is designed to reject MOST
sources of line noise. Pity the folks trapped in that burning building
who fail to hit whatever design window is accepted (WHILE the copper is
burning)

Post by Don Y
And, why would the "signal" suddenly disappear and not be a regular
happening? I.e., why only one visit in 30 years and not once a
month?

Neither you, nor I, can possibly answer that question.
[1] Presume they are trapped behind flames in a part of the building
with only one of those usually incoming "dial-less" phones, all they can
do is flash the hook in that situation.

Bertrand Sindri

2024-06-08 20:57:54 UTC

Post by Don Y
I question how the correct dialpulse timing is detected as a
rotary dial phone imposes a specific make-break ratio and pulse
rate.

But a dial-pulse needs to be an actual make-break of the loop, not
just "line noise".

Typical Don Y, thinking like an engineer. Did you miss the word
"lawyers" above? Once *lawyers* are involved, all logic and all
engineering regimen goes right out the window. Lawyers operate on
"what could a potential jury of laymen be convinced to believe". So
from the business's lawyer department (who's job it is to protect
the phone company from being sued for negligence [among other
things]) if "line noise" could be convincingly argued to a jury of
laymen as an "attempt to contact emergency services" such that the
jury would find the phone company liable for not routing the call to
the 911 center, then indeed many patterns of "line noise" will be
interpreted as an attempt to dial 911.

Then how can they have decided that this HASN'T occurred at any other
time on the same pair -- over a thirty year interval?

Because, obviously, the other prior instances of random line noise
bursts (if that is even what caused the "call", but you do reference
what could be called a 'burst' below) did not trigger the switch to
alert the 911 call center.

Nothing REMOTELY able of being argued to a jury that it was an
"out-of-spec" attempt at dialing 911?

But, whatever was seen by the switch obviously matched some pattern it was
programmed to recognize (evidence: the cops showing up asking about a 911
call).

I.e., there is SOME criteria that they have used to determine
THIS line noise could be argued as an attempt at 911. But, all
of the other line noise wasn't.

That much is obvious. They are, however, not telling you the criteria
they are using.

[I complained of a bad connection and had a lineman come out
and spend half an hour monitoring the line. "Looks good to
me!" Until, suddenly, you couldn't carry on a spoken conversation
over the line: "Whoa! What just happened?" Yet, no uniformed
officers...]

That instance obviously did not generate random patterns that matched
the criteria the switch was looking for. That, or, they disable the
911 forwarding while a lineman's working on the line, to avoid having
his efforts triggering spurious 911 forwards.

Post by Don Y
Would outpulsing at, for example, 400Hz ever be considered a
legitimate signal?

If the defense lawyers thought a prosecutor could convince a jury of
laymen that such a signal was an attempt at contacting 911 in a trial,
then yes, it would be considered legitimate signal.

Post by Don Y
(IIRC, dial-pulse rate was ~10Hz; are there "natural phenomena that
even approach that with any sort of regularity?)

Engineer: The dial pulse standard is 10Hz ± 4%. So we will make the
switch recognize 10Hz ± 8% and reject everything else.
Lawyer: Not good enough. Someone in peril, attempting to "dial" 911 by
flashing the hook switch manually [1] will never meet a 10Hz ± 8%
standard, you instead need to recognize just about everything that
might plausibly look like 9 1 1 in order to protect us from being found
guilty of negligence in a wrongful death suit and have to pay out $X
billion in settlements.

And, that has NEVER happened on this line, previously. So, how good is
THAT criteria?

But it has happened now. That is the non-intuitiveness of truly random
actions at work. They can go a very long time before they randomly hit
upon the right pattern. Then they could hit the right pattern every
week for six months. Then go silent for thirty more years.

Similarly, all lines recognize dial-pulse even if equipped with a
DTMF stationset. So, why don't we hear of friends and neighbors
getting similar visits?

I can't possibly answer that question for you.

An absence of noise on those lines (buried in the same soil with the
same drainage properties and precipitation patterns)?

Nor can I possibly answer that question either.

I.e., whatever criteria are used, it obviously is designed to reject
MOST sources of line noise. Pity the folks trapped in that burning
building who fail to hit whatever design window is accepted (WHILE
the copper is burning)

Which is just what the atty., worried about a possible lawsuit, is
worried about, and why they force the engineers to program the switch
to recognize "stuff" that isn't perfectly to spec.

Don Y

2024-06-08 21:42:34 UTC

Post by Don Y
I.e., whatever criteria are used, it obviously is designed to reject
MOST sources of line noise. Pity the folks trapped in that burning
building who fail to hit whatever design window is accepted (WHILE
the copper is burning)

Which is just what the atty., worried about a possible lawsuit, is
worried about, and why they force the engineers to program the switch
to recognize "stuff" that isn't perfectly to spec.

Remember, here, this is all covered by law that clearly defines the
responsibilities of the provider. One could see the telco's lawyer arguing:
"And, should we also detect two hookflashes, followed by a 3 minute delay and
another four hookflashes, a 2 second delay and three more in rapid succession
as the leading '9' -- and, not an elderly person slowly dialing 2 4 3..."

Recognizing "outliers" isn't easy. I suspect the switch doesn't even look
for a '9' followed by a '1' and another '1'. Rather, some "abnormal"
line activity. Could a two-year-old playing with a phone happen to dial
an emergency services number -- how is 6 2 1 1 1 not seen as 9 1 1?

The switch likely can't store much state for each possible subscriber.
So, it can't "learn" what to expect from a particular line: "Oh,
that's Don's line and the insulation on his pair have obviously degraded
to result in lots of noise on an otherwise functioning pair."

Instead, it has to adopt a one-size-fits-all algorithm. But, this has to
address legitimate 911 (dial pulsed) calls accepting the tolerances on
how fast the dial can "return to home" (in the presence of a "fat finger")
as well as all of these hypothesized attempts at POSSIBLY needing assistance
and being inept in your dialing.

<https://maker.pro/forums/threads/can-telephone-noise-dial-911.66494/>
<https://support.google.com/googlepixelwatch/thread/205920957/911-call-while-i-was-sleeping?hl=en>
<https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/03/health/apple-watch-911-emergency-call.html>

The downside of false positives is that of increased externalities; someone
ELSE pays for the problem (potentially, adding bias to future emergency
responses -- "boy who cried wolf").

"In Grand County, home to a busy mountain called Winter Park, Sheriff
Brett Schroetlin decided in late December to devote less attention to
the crash-detection calls. Now if a 911 operator receives one from the
slopes and no one is on the other end of the line, they know to ignore
the call; no more referrals or follow-ups. None of the ghost calls so
far have been real emergencies, Sheriff Schroetlin reasoned, and he
couldn’t afford to waste limited resources."

I put a weight on each "potential emergency" scenario that I detect.
I will bother the occupant before I will bother a (remote) family
member. The family member before a nearby neighbor. And, the neighbor
before the police.

But, I can do this because I have more information than a string of break/makes
as well as intimate knowledge of the occupant and scene.

Sylvia Else

2024-06-06 03:29:11 UTC

(sigh) The land line was SO much better (for our uses). But, they just
aren't maintaining the (below grade) copper any more.

Subscribe to a VOIP service?

Sylvia.

Don Y

2024-06-06 05:34:15 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else

(sigh) The land line was SO much better (for our uses). But, they just
aren't maintaining the (below grade) copper any more.

Subscribe to a VOIP service?

Only POTS has (had?) mandated levels of service.

VoIP over DSL leaves you with the availability of the DSL link
to worry about.

VoIP over cable, same difference.

All carriers are vulnerable -- and to differing sorts of problems
(with differing sorts of motivations to fix them!)

It is amusing that the real "asset" that TPC has is the wire in
the ground. Yet (here), they seem to treat it with disdain...

john larkin

2024-06-06 15:52:48 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else

(sigh) The land line was SO much better (for our uses). But, they just
aren't maintaining the (below grade) copper any more.

Subscribe to a VOIP service?

Only POTS has (had?) mandated levels of service.
VoIP over DSL leaves you with the availability of the DSL link
to worry about.
VoIP over cable, same difference.
All carriers are vulnerable -- and to differing sorts of problems
(with differing sorts of motivations to fix them!)
It is amusing that the real "asset" that TPC has is the wire in
the ground. Yet (here), they seem to treat it with disdain...

We dumped the expensive AT&T POTS and went with the "free" cable
telephone service. The cable phone thing works when it rains, which
the AT&T line didn't.

Of course we unplug the phones most of the time, to stop all of the
spam calls.

piglet

2024-06-01 22:09:23 UTC

It is not difficult, check ifixit com and countless YouTube videos. Over
the years I have had complete successes with iPhone 4s 5 5c 6 6s and 8 -
the cheap eBay knockoff batteries give new lease of life to old phones,
seem to last a couple of years, possibly not quite as long as Apple
original but by then there are other reasons to retire that phone and move
up.

--
piglet

Don Y

2024-06-01 23:04:24 UTC

Post by piglet

It is not difficult, check ifixit com and countless YouTube videos. Over

Yes, I figure there must be a relatively large market and most "customers"
are relatively unskilled in this sort of activity. I had hoped, however,
that the batteries would be shit or the phones would look cosmetically
damaged (to give me an excuse not to undertake the activity :< )

Post by piglet
the years I have had complete successes with iPhone 4s 5 5c 6 6s and 8 -
the cheap eBay knockoff batteries give new lease of life to old phones,
seem to last a couple of years, possibly not quite as long as Apple
original but by then there are other reasons to retire that phone and move
up.

We have an iPhone X, as well, but it is a fair bit larger and runs a
newer version of iOS. Plus, appears to have made some other changes
to the UI (e.g., the home button is replaced by an upward swipe)
that she points out.

I will undertake the repair as it will likely take less time than
shopping for a new phone for her. I would have prefered that effort
to move to 5G, though... (it's only a matter of time for the 6S and X
to be decommisioned by 4G's retirement)

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Martin Brown

2024-06-02 13:08:46 UTC

Post by piglet

The battery in SWMBO's iPhone has swelled. Not surprising as it
is ANCIENT (6s).
She is asking for it to be replaced: "I *like* that phone!"
Is this actually worth the effort, given that batteries are likely
knock-offs (dubious quality) and disassembly/assembly is undoubtedly
a lesson in fumble-fingers? And, what's the likely life expectancy
of a "new" battery?
I've offered her either of two phones that I use but "they're too big".

It is not difficult, check ifixit com and countless YouTube videos. Over

It is doable but be very careful separating the parts.

Sharp tools and a moderate amount of force in exactly the right places
is involved. Newer models tend to be much more difficult to dismantle
reliably. You can sort of tell which are most difficult by looking at
how much third party repairers charge for a battery swap.

My friend that does it a lot has a specially sharpened wallpaper scraper
for applying the right amount of force over a long joint. Various
YouTube videos show how to do it - there is scope to devaluing it if you
break the glass or injuring yourself if you slip with a sharp blade.

The ones with copious amounts of hot melt glue inside are very tricky. I
think the 6s will be old enough not to have that problem. Other option
might be to find one secondhand from the likes of Cex or whatever the US
equivalent is called. A 6s won't have much resale value now.

--
Martin Brown

Don Y

2024-06-02 13:49:21 UTC

Post by Martin Brown

Post by piglet

Post by Don Y
I've offered her either of two phones that I use but "they're too big".

It is not difficult, check ifixit com and countless YouTube videos. Over

It is doable but be very careful separating the parts.

It's the adhesives that will pose a problem as you don't know what they
are adhered to (and the sorts of forces that separating them might impose
that could damage those other things).

Post by Martin Brown
Sharp tools and a moderate amount of force in exactly the right places is
involved. Newer models tend to be much more difficult to dismantle reliably.
You can sort of tell which are most difficult by looking at how much third
party repairers charge for a battery swap.

The case is already swelled open so it will just be a problem of
sorting out the parts inside.

As they likely weren't designed with "casual" disassembly in mind,
I am sure the goals were more of how to get it together cheaply
and efficiently.

[I have made NO plans for my current designs to be repairable. It's
just not worth the labor involved for things so small...]

Post by Martin Brown
My friend that does it a lot has a specially sharpened wallpaper scraper for
applying the right amount of force over a long joint. Various YouTube videos
show how to do it - there is scope to devaluing it if you break the glass or
injuring yourself if you slip with a sharp blade.
The ones with copious amounts of hot melt glue inside are very tricky. I think
the 6s will be old enough not to have that problem. Other option might be to
find one secondhand from the likes of Cex or whatever the US equivalent is
called. A 6s won't have much resale value now.

ISTR seeing them in the $30-40 range -- which struck me as a lot
for such an old device (with a battery that is likely in the same
overall condition as this one).

I have an activation locked 8 that I can possibly pilfer a spare
battery from if the "new" one doesn't pan out. It's just annoying
to be dealing with something like this and, at the same time,
being beseeched to make another 450 Benne Wafers... <frown>

(sigh) And all for a *phone*?? We REALLY avoid using the phone,
prefering email or face-to-face meetings (where you don't have to wonder
as to the availability of the other party or their CURRENT time zone)
and, receiving calls is just an imposition for the convenience of the
*caller*! <frown>

Don Y

2024-06-06 21:08:54 UTC