Discussion:
Offshore firmware management
(too old to reply)
Don Y
2024-05-25 23:24:42 UTC
Permalink
When outsourcing manufacture, what steps are you taking to protect
your IP (in the form of firmware) from unauthorized copying/counterfeiting
by the selected vendor *or* parties that may have access to their systems?
Joe Gwinn
2024-05-26 00:10:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2024 16:24:42 -0700, Don Y
Post by Don Y
When outsourcing manufacture, what steps are you taking to protect
your IP (in the form of firmware) from unauthorized copying/counterfeiting
by the selected vendor *or* parties that may have access to their systems?
What is the capability and desire level of the threat actors? If it's
an intelligence agency of reasonable large country, you probably
cannot do anything effective.

Joe Gwinn
Don Y
2024-05-26 03:01:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gwinn
On Sat, 25 May 2024 16:24:42 -0700, Don Y
Post by Don Y
When outsourcing manufacture, what steps are you taking to protect
your IP (in the form of firmware) from unauthorized copying/counterfeiting
by the selected vendor *or* parties that may have access to their systems?
What is the capability and desire level of the threat actors? If it's
an intelligence agency of reasonable large country, you probably
cannot do anything effective.
No. The concern is that the contracted manufacturer (or, anyone with
access to his information systems) decides to go into business in
direct competition, simply by selling YOUR device at a cut-rate price
(not having to recover the engineering/development/warranty/support
costs that you have)
Don Y
2024-05-26 03:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gwinn
On Sat, 25 May 2024 16:24:42 -0700, Don Y
Post by Don Y
When outsourcing manufacture, what steps are you taking to protect
your IP (in the form of firmware) from unauthorized copying/counterfeiting
by the selected vendor *or* parties that may have access to their systems?
What is the capability and desire level of the threat actors?  If it's
an intelligence agency of reasonable large country, you probably
cannot do anything effective.
No.  The concern is that the contracted manufacturer (or, anyone with
access to his information systems) decides to go into business in
direct competition, simply by selling YOUR device at a cut-rate price
(not having to recover the engineering/development/warranty/support
costs that you have)
.. given that he has all (?) of the information to produce a device
that can be drop-shipped to a customer.
Phil Hobbs
2024-05-26 04:42:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Y
Post by Joe Gwinn
On Sat, 25 May 2024 16:24:42 -0700, Don Y
Post by Don Y
When outsourcing manufacture, what steps are you taking to protect
your IP (in the form of firmware) from unauthorized copying/counterfeiting
by the selected vendor *or* parties that may have access to their systems?
What is the capability and desire level of the threat actors? If it's
an intelligence agency of reasonable large country, you probably
cannot do anything effective.
No. The concern is that the contracted manufacturer (or, anyone with
access to his information systems) decides to go into business in
direct competition, simply by selling YOUR device at a cut-rate price
(not having to recover the engineering/development/warranty/support
costs that you have)
If you’re producing stuff in China, there are a bunch of ways to prevent
your factory from going into competition with you, including registering
your trademarks in China and structuring your contracts correctly. The
Harris Sliwoski blog is an excellent read on that stuff.
For instance, just a few days ago:

https://harris-sliwoski.com/chinalawblog/the-ten-keys-to-overseas-manufacturing-success/

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Joe Gwinn
2024-05-26 13:20:02 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2024 20:01:48 -0700, Don Y
Post by Don Y
Post by Joe Gwinn
On Sat, 25 May 2024 16:24:42 -0700, Don Y
Post by Don Y
When outsourcing manufacture, what steps are you taking to protect
your IP (in the form of firmware) from unauthorized copying/counterfeiting
by the selected vendor *or* parties that may have access to their systems?
What is the capability and desire level of the threat actors? If it's
an intelligence agency of reasonable large country, you probably
cannot do anything effective.
No. The concern is that the contracted manufacturer (or, anyone with
access to his information systems) decides to go into business in
direct competition, simply by selling YOUR device at a cut-rate price
(not having to recover the engineering/development/warranty/support
costs that you have)
OK. Also, what does the device sell for? This will dominate the
choice.

Joe Gwinn
Don Y
2024-05-26 14:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by Don Y
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by Don Y
When outsourcing manufacture, what steps are you taking to protect
your IP (in the form of firmware) from unauthorized copying/counterfeiting
by the selected vendor *or* parties that may have access to their systems?
What is the capability and desire level of the threat actors? If it's
an intelligence agency of reasonable large country, you probably
cannot do anything effective.
No. The concern is that the contracted manufacturer (or, anyone with
access to his information systems) decides to go into business in
direct competition, simply by selling YOUR device at a cut-rate price
(not having to recover the engineering/development/warranty/support
costs that you have)
OK. Also, what does the device sell for? This will dominate the
choice.
Nominally $100. But, one would typically buy a selection of a few hundred per
end user. "One" would have very little value.

Hardware "unit" costs are reasonably insignificant; they are designed to be
easy/inexpensive to produce. No precision components, manufacturing
tolerances, etc. If you are committed to "copying at scale", then there
is little standing in your way (i.e., molds, boards, packaging, etc.
are just "costs of doing business")

*ALL* of the value lies in the software.

[In the (arcade) video game days, most legitimate vendors had reasonably
stable hardware PLATFORMS that were reused IN THE DESIGNS OF successive
games. The next game would find the user buying a new cabinet, monitor,
another set of boards, etc. The big difference would be in the contents
of the ROMS and the artwork on the cabinet.

Counterfeiters saw an easy way to exploit this. They could build their
own boardsets. OR, rely on the customer to have a set from the last
legitimately purchased game -- along with a cabinet, monitor, etc. I.e.,
NO SHIPPING COSTS or delays! They could just ship a new set of ROMs
and some appliques to slap on the sides of the cabinet to "build" THEIR
new game -- which was actually YOUR game but with cosmetic changes to
appear different and avoid strict copyright infringement -- superficially.

For customers who already saw your $2-3K price tag as excessive, (1980
dollars, and many unit purchases with typical "appeal" of several months)
it was easy for them to ignore their moral compass and just buy an
ILLEGAL upgrade. Especially as they had no way of predicting how
THEIR "customers" (players) would receive the new game. Would it
see enough play -- number of locations is limited and revenue has
to typically be shared with the location's owner -- to cover the
initial outlay?

You, of course, wanted to sell complete games, not "ROM sets"
as that drives your sales figures up. Its hard to fold man-years
of development into the *price* of a set of ROMs without customers
feeling raped! But, you could easily distribute those costs in the
markup of an entire game console!

The counterfeiter just is concerned with profit and ease of effort.
He doesn't have man-years of investment to recover; you've already come
up with the concept, gameplay AND implementation! All he has to do
is make it appear to be HIS creation. If, instead, he had to build
and ship cabinets, it would be too hard for him to counterfeit your
product!

The parallels here are obvious. I *want* the hardware to be trivial
to implement as it drives my costs down. Even if the hardware was
not-copyable, that wouldn't eliminate the potential for after-market
"mods" to genuine articles. (e.g., I purchase old Nest thermostats
as I can repurpose them for my own use and would never invest that
kind of money to tool up for such an "extravagant" implementation!)]

So, an employee/insider at your chosen contractor could produce units
in a friend's (euphemistic) "garage" -- and, move to another friend's
a week later (to avoid legal pressures).

Legal protections just add to the cost and delay remedies. Given that
the "culprit" is likely not a firm that would fear or be bound by
law, you have to expect your adversary to be willing to disappear
and reappear in another guise.

Ideally, you want to rely on ENGINEERING protections; his actual identity
then falls out of the equation as the protections apply universally.

A common approach is to add value beyond the physical level (i.e.,
only registered sales can access value-added services from the
"design owner" -- trying to avoid using the term "manufacturer"
as there can be some confusion, here). Of course, this can
be exploited; the thief buys one and becomes a legitimate
customer. Then, acts as a middleman/conduit to provide those
services to "his" customers.

[In the early days of consumer software, one approach to reducing
copying was to provide a physical manual for the product; if you
clone the diskette, you still have to photocopy the manual in order
to effectively use it.]

Commercial and industrial customers can be "protected" (reduced
risk of them being lost to a counterfeiter's efforts) as they
have a financial interest in being able to *use* the devices they
have purchased. While they may be more eager to litigate, they
would also realize the chances of losing that litigation are
high given that the devices in question can't be traced to
you as the legitimate "manufacturer".

"Frequent" updates can also weed out the knockoffs. But, you have
to consider that these users/purchasers may not have been complicit
in the fraud. They *think* they own a genuine product and only
later discover their predicament. Leaving them high and dry (because
of THEIR actions!) doesn't leave them with a good feeling towards
"your" product -- or *you*!

(It's one thing to be conned out of a $100 purchase; quite another to
be conned a hundred-fold! That's likely to drag lawyers into the picture
and the real crook has likely taken measures to avoid punishment!)

If, OTOH, a customer buys a product and it JUST DOESN'T WORK, then
he is more likely to react with his vendor, then and there. The
sale can be undone -- and others can be warned of his misfortune.

Anything with a processor will require some "design cooperation"
to ensure it can be tested -- in manufacturing -- to verify the
proper functionality of the hardware.

But, note that this does not have to include the functionality
of the "final" device! I.e., your contract with the shop can
specify that all devices must pass the self test/fixture that
you have included in the contract specification. The onus is then
on you to ensure the chances of this passing with a defective
build is small/nonexistent.

However, this means adding a post-processing step with a "trusted"
agency (or, oneself) to produce the actual devices. The offshore
devices are just treated as components, in a sense. "Final assembly"
being done elsewhere.

In this case, you have greater control over the firmware that
gets installed in the devices-to-be-sold. But, at some
additional cost.

The adversary, of course, never sees this step so his "products"
aren't "finished goods". Anyone buying them discovers they just
don't work!
Joe Gwinn
2024-05-26 16:01:50 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 May 2024 07:14:54 -0700, Don Y
Post by Don Y
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by Don Y
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by Don Y
When outsourcing manufacture, what steps are you taking to protect
your IP (in the form of firmware) from unauthorized copying/counterfeiting
by the selected vendor *or* parties that may have access to their systems?
What is the capability and desire level of the threat actors? If it's
an intelligence agency of reasonable large country, you probably
cannot do anything effective.
No. The concern is that the contracted manufacturer (or, anyone with
access to his information systems) decides to go into business in
direct competition, simply by selling YOUR device at a cut-rate price
(not having to recover the engineering/development/warranty/support
costs that you have)
OK. Also, what does the device sell for? This will dominate the
choice.
Nominally $100. But, one would typically buy a selection of a few hundred per
end user. "One" would have very little value.
Hardware "unit" costs are reasonably insignificant; they are designed to be
easy/inexpensive to produce. No precision components, manufacturing
tolerances, etc. If you are committed to "copying at scale", then there
is little standing in your way (i.e., molds, boards, packaging, etc.
are just "costs of doing business")
*ALL* of the value lies in the software.
[good summary, but big snip]

It sound like you really have only one kind of possible solution.

First, as Phil H suggests, do not provide the firmware to the contract
manufacturer at all, instead install it back home.

Now "install" can mean a number of things. If you just install a
common firmware image, that contract manufacturer can simply buy a
copy in the US, and reverse engineer it, so that isn't going to work
for very long.

If the hardware has a unique and large hardware serial number (there
are chips that do this), the installed firmware can be adjusted to
know its target serial number, and refuse to work anywhere else. This
is done with a crypto checksum scheme of some kind, complicating and
delaying reverse engineering.

Next stronger is to also require the product to contact the mother
ship to complete the serial number.

How far to go is an economic decision - all you need to do is to make
cloning your product economically pointless. It is not necessary for
the locking scheme to be bulletproof.

Joe Gwinn
Don Y
2024-05-26 16:42:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by Don Y
Hardware "unit" costs are reasonably insignificant; they are designed to be
easy/inexpensive to produce. No precision components, manufacturing
tolerances, etc. If you are committed to "copying at scale", then there
is little standing in your way (i.e., molds, boards, packaging, etc.
are just "costs of doing business")
*ALL* of the value lies in the software.
[good summary, but big snip]
It sound like you really have only one kind of possible solution.
First, as Phil H suggests, do not provide the firmware to the contract
manufacturer at all, instead install it back home.
That's been SOP for many decades, now. The "manufacturer" is given
an "image" that contains manufacturing diagnostics. This, coupled with
an explanation for what is being tested (and how) -- along with
schematics -- lets them troubleshoot and validate units before
acceptance. (silly to try to "hide" schematics as the gerbers and
stuffing list already tell *that* story)

You support ISP and then just "reprogram" the image later, at YOUR
facility. This gives you control of the image as well as JIT to
bind an image to *a* delivery (important if you want to customize
the product for specific customers and don't want to have to commit
to keeping a specific number of each variant "in stock", risking
overestimating some demands and underestimating others)

But, there's a fair bit of "cost" to performing these operations.
For a DM+DL of $10-20, that can represent a big piece of the "cost".
(EASY to ignore if DM+DL is $100-1000!)
Post by Joe Gwinn
Now "install" can mean a number of things. If you just install a
common firmware image, that contract manufacturer can simply buy a
copy in the US, and reverse engineer it, so that isn't going to work
for very long.
Exactly. You have to rely on "secure" storage to keep it hidden.
Post by Joe Gwinn
If the hardware has a unique and large hardware serial number (there
are chips that do this), the installed firmware can be adjusted to
know its target serial number, and refuse to work anywhere else. This
is done with a crypto checksum scheme of some kind, complicating and
delaying reverse engineering.
Yes. If you further tie that SN to an "activation" procedure, then
only the first unit bearing a particular SN can ever see use. if the
"SN-space" is sparse, an adversary has to rely on finding a valid
SN to copy. But, only AT MOST the first of those copies will ever see
an activation.

E.g., a TRULY counterfeit iPhone can only replace exactly one legitimate
iPhone as Apple controls which ones "work" and which WON'T -- based on
its own mechanisms (imagine what it would be like trying to argue
with Apple that YOUR iphone is genuine and any other previous
activation was the counterfeit??)

Activation can further be tied to sales records so those counterfeit
"sales" are never recognized (by the legitimate vendor).

[This also has an obvious tie-in for upgrades; even if you manage
to get a hold of an upgrade image, the device doesn't have to
accept it -- unless you further modify the images involved to
avoid any such dependencies. (But, one should eschew upgrades,
on principle, as they increase the cost to the user)]
Post by Joe Gwinn
Next stronger is to also require the product to contact the mother
ship to complete the serial number.
Yes, as above. Note that the image installed can also VARY with the SN.
The SN disclosed to the "mothership" (activation server) can be a
one-way hash of the real SN so an MITM can't do anything with that
observation.
Post by Joe Gwinn
How far to go is an economic decision - all you need to do is to make
cloning your product economically pointless. It is not necessary for
the locking scheme to be bulletproof.
There are lots of similar schemes but all come with some "labor" cost.
You're outsourcing the manufacture, presumably, to minimize costs...

The economic aspect is always the kicker. With high product costs,
its easy to add a significant effort/cost to protect a design.
But, when things get "dirt cheap", everything you add SOLELY to
protect your IP is pure overhead; it adds no VALUE to your product!
It's akin to throwing money at lawyers to try to get injunctions
against adversaries (the product doesn't IMPROVE as a result of
those actions. and, you're attention has been diverted from
adding new functionality to *defending* your existing design)
Don Y
2024-05-26 16:59:56 UTC
Permalink
The economic aspect is always the kicker.  With high product costs,
its easy to add a significant effort/cost to protect a design.
But, when things get "dirt cheap", everything you add SOLELY to
protect your IP is pure overhead; it adds no VALUE to your product!
It's akin to throwing money at lawyers to try to get injunctions
against adversaries (the product doesn't IMPROVE as a result of
those actions.  and, you're attention has been diverted from
adding new functionality to *defending* your existing design)
Yet another (video game) anecdote...

Hardware was REALLY important in that era as processors were
pretty limited (bus speeds of 1MB/s). So, if you could add
hardware capabilities that couldn't FUNCTIONALLY *and* ECONOMICALLY
be replicated/emulated, you could add value AND protect your
design.

The obvious such choice (for raster games) was a custom BLTer.
It's functionality was easily emulated (because it is hard
to disguise when it is so heavily and obviously used!) -- but,
at a much higher cost (implementation in SSI/MSI).

As the functionality had value for other games, its development
costs could be amortized over a greater number of products/units.
To thwart folks trying to purchase just THAT component (e.g.,
via your "spare parts" service), you could price it astronomically
high and/or require the (alleged) defective device to be returned
in exchange for that replacement purchase. So, you'd have had to
have purchased N of them legitimately in order to buy N replacements
(a losing proposition).

Note, of course, that this still doesn't prevent a counterfeiter
from offering an "upgrade kit" to be applied to one of your
old games at a reduced price to provide a knock-off "new game"!

john larkin
2024-05-26 03:46:58 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2024 16:24:42 -0700, Don Y
Post by Don Y
When outsourcing manufacture, what steps are you taking to protect
your IP (in the form of firmware) from unauthorized copying/counterfeiting
by the selected vendor *or* parties that may have access to their systems?
Once someone cloned one of our modules. Our best customer called us
immediately and said they would never buy from them again.
Phil Hobbs
2024-05-26 04:30:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Y
When outsourcing manufacture, what steps are you taking to protect
your IP (in the form of firmware) from unauthorized copying/counterfeiting
by the selected vendor *or* parties that may have access to their systems?
Doing flashing and test in house, using these:

https://www.thejigsapp.com

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
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