Exploding pagers

[Crash Gordon]

Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.

This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.

Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

[TTman]

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
 Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives.  Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

When I went through Israel 'security' at heathrow back in the late 90's,
they put my video camera in a 'sniffer chamber' ( for want of a better
word)...presumably to sniff for explosives.

[Don Y]

When I went through Israel 'security' at heathrow back in the late 90's, they
put my video camera in a 'sniffer chamber' ( for want of a better
word)...presumably to sniff for explosives.

I've had laptops "swabbed" several times when passing through
security here in the states. I'm assuming this to be a more
effective way of collecting particles that could indicate
something nasty inside.

[john larkin]

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

[piglet]

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

I heard that Hezbollah had decreed cell phones were too easily compromised
so thought lower tech would be better. Presumably the explosive material
was somehow embedded within the battery assembly as that is the only
largish object inside suitable for concealment?

[Joe Gwinn]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 22:53:24 -0000 (UTC), piglet

Post by piglet

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

I heard that Hezbollah had decreed cell phones were too easily compromised
so thought lower tech would be better. Presumably the explosive material
was somehow embedded within the battery assembly as that is the only
largish object inside suitable for concealment?

Mossad did that in a cellphone used to assassinate a famous bomb
maker, Yahya Ayyash, in 1996.

I'm guessing that the high explosive was used as the potting agent, so
the pager would look as expected when X-rayed. TNT melts at 82 C.

Joe Gwinn

[bitrex]

Post by Joe Gwinn

Post by piglet
I heard that Hezbollah had decreed cell phones were too easily compromised
so thought lower tech would be better. Presumably the explosive material
was somehow embedded within the battery assembly as that is the only
largish object inside suitable for concealment?

Mossad did that in a cellphone used to assassinate a famous bomb
maker, Yahya Ayyash, in 1996.
I'm guessing that the high explosive was used as the potting agent, so
the pager would look as expected when X-rayed. TNT melts at 82 C.
Joe Gwinn

It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
and humiliation for the perpetrators.

IMO makes it less likely there was any "precise targeting" going on, the
higher up in the organization you target with these things, and the
longer you wait to blow them, the more likely discovery becomes.

Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know
anything was amiss.

Realistic explanation: They shipped in a bunch of them in a hurry, doled
them out in a hurry to just about whomever wanted one, and popped
whomever was unfortunate enough to get their hands on one within about
two weeks.

[bitrex]

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

Post by john larkin
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

Well, after it became widely believed that Israel was targeting
residents of Gaza based on smartphone data..

[john larkin]

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

Well, after it became widely believed that Israel was targeting
residents of Gaza based on smartphone data..

That makes sense. Most governments find bad guys that way.

[bitrex]

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

The current Middle East conflict continues beyond all rational
proportion or benefit with respect to the inciting incident, mainly
because one Netanyahu and cronies find it politically expedient to
continue it, similar to how Bush II found a multi-front war politically
expedient.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

Well, after it became widely believed that Israel was targeting
residents of Gaza based on smartphone data..

That makes sense. Most governments find bad guys that way.

Yes all the latest high-tech toys the US and Israeli surveillance state
can come up with are getting a good work-out and break in period over
there, you'd think that might give the average Trumper facing down the
prospect of the better part of a decade of life under "Queen Kamala" pause..

[john larkin]

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

[John Robertson]

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?

I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.

What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

John

[bitrex]

Post by John Robertson

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?
I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.
John

The US is the last country anyone takes seriously as mediator of any
kind of "peace process."

Imagine if some country like North Korea ever injured 2,000 Americans
with exploding pagers, would there still be a "peace process"?

Any country that did that, the US would go there and shoot them and bomb
them and bomb them and shoot them and bomb them and bomb them and bomb
them until the end of time. The US has been bombing Iraq at least
monthly for the better part of 40 years, when in living memory has the
US ever "made peace" with anyone!

Amusingly, Donald Trump likely did somewhat more for world peace in
practice than any president in the 50 years prior. Not really
intentionally mind you but mainly because he likes the easy wins and is
so pretty selective about his wars, and even he's smart enough (so far)
to not to get embroiled in land wars in Asia against people who didn't
do shit to us directly.

But no doubt if something like 9/11 happened on his watch he'd want to
glassify half the middle east immediately, and there were likely people
in positions of power over there who believed he'd do it too. Like
Reagan's tenure, having millions of people one senile washed-up TV
personality away from incineration is what the right-wing media tends to
refer to as "geopolitical stability."

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:35 -0700) it happened John Robertson

Post by John Robertson

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?
I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.
John

The problem is that netanyahoo is a pawn used by the US Military Complex to make as much war and sell as many weapons
as possible to help the bankrupted you ash of aaaa and suck its taxpayers.
Same with shitlensky in youcrane
The October attack plan was known, but netanyahoo diverted their defence to get a reason to stir of war and destory Palestine
the contiuouse provokation by israhell in the westbank, the closing of sea access to Palestine etc etc all provokations

Does evolution ALLOW for such a nasty species like youuws?
We will see!

[john larkin]

Post by John Robertson

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?

Nobody wants the gazan Palestinians. Not Jordan, not Egypt, nobody.

Israel would be a peaceful ally and a serious asset to that part of
the world, but the shiites want the Jews all dead.

Post by John Robertson
I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.

Israel is sending a message: we value our citizens, and not all of
those citizens are Jews.

There are few terrorists on the Israeli side.

"Judiasism is the religion of life and Islam is the religion of
death."

Post by John Robertson
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

The islamic crazies won't have it. They must kill the Jews and
islamize Israel. The Koran demands it.

This is a battle for civilization, the path from The Ten Commandments
through the Enlightment and the Constitution and universal human
rights.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by John Robertson

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind
of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?
I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

Not to mention Ukraine/Russia!

[john larkin]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:19:59 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by John Robertson

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind
of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?
I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

Not to mention Ukraine/Russia!

History is full of insane dictators who made megadeaths. Lots of
Russians.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:19:59 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

<snip>

Post by john larkin

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by John Robertson
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

Not to mention Ukraine/Russia!

History is full of insane dictators who made megadeaths.

Not exactly full. Megadeaths need modern industrial civilisation.

Hitler, Stalin and Mao are the only candidates that spring to my mind.

Post by john larkin
Lots of Russians.

Stalin is the only example I can come up with. Lenin wasn't insane and
didn't kill all that many people. Putin may have ambitions to qualify
but he isn't there yet.

Trump may well be insane, and his mishandling of the Covid-19 pandemic
in the US did lead to more than a million Americans dying of the
disease, but since an more competent president might have only halved
the number of deaths, he probably doesn't qualify either.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Their insensitivity to collateral damage makes them look like decidedly
barbarian creeps too.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

That's not the only option. If Israel negotiated a good enough deal with
the non-barbarian majority in occupied Palestine, that majority might
reject Hamas. Killing off dozens of the non-barbarian majority for every
Hamas member eliminated isn't a route to that kind of solution.

[bitrex]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Their insensitivity to collateral damage makes them look like decidedly
barbarian creeps too.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

That's not the only option. If Israel negotiated a good enough deal with
 the non-barbarian majority in occupied Palestine, that majority might
reject Hamas. Killing off dozens of the non-barbarian majority for every
Hamas member eliminated isn't a route to that kind of solution.

The US is mostly "smart" enough to ensure its wars create massive
humanitarian, infrastructure, and sanitation crises in countries
thousands of miles away from Washington, but creating one 42 miles from
your nation's capital is ah...well it's an "interesting strategy" to say
the least.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by bitrex

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind
of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Their insensitivity to collateral damage makes them look like decidedly
barbarian creeps too.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

That's not the only option. If Israel negotiated a good enough deal with
 the non-barbarian majority in occupied Palestine, that majority
 might
reject Hamas. Killing off dozens of the non-barbarian majority for
every Hamas member eliminated isn't a route to that kind of solution.

The US is mostly "smart" enough to ensure its wars create massive
humanitarian, infrastructure, and sanitation crises in countries
thousands of miles away from Washington, but creating one 42 miles from
your nation's capital is ah...well it's an "interesting strategy" to say
the least.

Balitmore?

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:09:45 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Bull, they are just a bunch of religious fanatics who believe in Mosex
fireants

Its just a religious brainwashed bunch.

[john larkin]

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:09:45 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Bull, they are just a bunch of religious fanatics who believe in Mosex
fireants
Its just a religious brainwashed bunch.

Israel has citizens, and elected officials, who are Muslims and
Christians and women and gays and all sorts of stuff. It's a modern
democracy. Gays and uppity women get stoned to death in some places.

Israel is also a major electronics and biotech center. And Gal Godot
is awfully cute.

[chrisq]

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying
to destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on
both sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.

Retreat into the sea?

[john larkin]

Post by chrisq

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying
to destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on
both sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...

Only savages take - and murder - innocent hostages.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by john larkin

Post by chrisq

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying
to destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on
both sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...

Only savages take - and murder - innocent hostages.

But Israel's casual attitude to collateral damage is equally uncivilised.

[noel]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by john larkin

Post by chrisq

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind
of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying to
destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on both
sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...

Only savages take - and murder - innocent hostages.

But Israel's casual attitude to collateral damage is equally
uncivilised.

indeed, there is no way known, that israels murder squads can absolutely
guarantee that none of the supply chain batch didnt get diverted to a
private company, say, in the U.S.A.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by chrisq

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind
of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying to
destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on both
sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...

Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS. And now we have the walkie-talkies! Looks
like Hezbolla are going to have to learn semaphore. ;-)

[john larkin]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by chrisq

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind
of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying to
destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on both
sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...

Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.

But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.

You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

Gerhard

[john larkin]

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.

That was accidental, collateral damage. Sadly, that happens in war.

I doubt it was her pager.

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

I live in San Francisco and rarely thump bibles. And I confess to
being 3/4 German and 1/4 Irish.

I was surprised to recently receive two Chinese bibles.

Loading Image...

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann
Gerhard

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by john larkin

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.

That was accidental, collateral damage. Sadly, that happens in war.
I doubt it was her pager.

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to
be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look
it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

I live in San Francisco and rarely thump bibles. And I confess to being
3/4 German and 1/4 Irish.

That would account for your bad temper when you've had a drink! :-D

[john larkin]

On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:29:16 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by john larkin

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.

That was accidental, collateral damage. Sadly, that happens in war.
I doubt it was her pager.

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to
be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look
it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

I live in San Francisco and rarely thump bibles. And I confess to being
3/4 German and 1/4 Irish.

That would account for your bad temper when you've had a drink! :-D

When we're in a really wild mood, Mo and I will split a beer.

[bitrex]

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
Gerhard

It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
and humiliation for the perpetrators.

Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know
anything was amiss.

Realistic explanation: They shipped in a bunch of them in a hurry, doled
them out in a hurry to just about whomever wanted one, and popped
whomever was unfortunate enough to get their hands on one within about
two weeks.

[john larkin]

Post by bitrex

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
Gerhard

It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
and humiliation for the perpetrators.
Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know
anything was amiss.

And so stupid as to allow the same trick on their walki-talkies the
next day.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by john larkin

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

<snip>

Post by john larkin
And so stupid as to allow the same trick on their walki-talkies the
next day.

Both the pagers and the walkie-talkies were sabotaged - and sold to
Hezbollah - some time ago. Quite why Israel didn't blow up both sets of
gear at the same time escapes me. Most likely it was two different
operations, having a common inspiration and separate implementations.

My guess is the people who set up the walkie-talkie operation were
surprised when the pagers were blown up and blew up their units as soon
as possible afterwards, before their gear could get run through X-ray
imagers.

[Crash Gordon]

Post by Bill Sloman
My guess is the people who set up the walkie-talkie operation were
surprised when the pagers were blown up and blew up their units as soon
as possible afterwards, before their gear could get run through X-ray
imagers.

My thought was that the attackers knew that the pagers were in daily use
and the walkies were backups. So they blew the pagers, left a day for
survivors to switch to walkies, then blew them to clean up stragglers.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by bitrex

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to
be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look
it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
Gerhard

It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
and humiliation for the perpetrators.
Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know
anything was amiss.
Realistic explanation: They shipped in a bunch of them in a hurry, doled
them out in a hurry to just about whomever wanted one, and popped
whomever was unfortunate enough to get their hands on one within about
two weeks.

Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on board
at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines'
explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll have
to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't
happen going forward.

[john larkin]

On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by bitrex

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to
be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look
it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
Gerhard

It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
and humiliation for the perpetrators.
Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know
anything was amiss.
Realistic explanation: They shipped in a bunch of them in a hurry, doled
them out in a hurry to just about whomever wanted one, and popped
whomever was unfortunate enough to get their hands on one within about
two weeks.

Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on board
at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines'
explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll have
to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't
happen going forward.

It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
worked on a plane.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by john larkin
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

<snip>

Post by john larkin

Post by Cursitor Doom
Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on board
at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines'
explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll have
to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't
happen going forward.

It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
worked on a plane.

Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
technology.

[John R Walliker]

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by john larkin
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

<snip>

Post by john larkin

Post by Cursitor Doom
Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on board
at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines'
explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll have
to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't
happen going forward.

It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
worked on a plane.

Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
technology.

Not really. They have windows. The doors are not electrically connected
to the fuselage all the way round so they act as slot antennas.
Mobile phones work fine inside planes.

John

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 20 Sep 2024 08:37:14 +0100) it happened John R Walliker

Post by John R Walliker

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by john larkin
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

<snip>

Post by john larkin

Post by Cursitor Doom
Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on board
at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines'
explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll have
to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't
happen going forward.

It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
worked on a plane.

Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
technology.

Not really. They have windows. The doors are not electrically connected
to the fuselage all the way round so they act as slot antennas.
Mobile phones work fine inside planes.

Indeed!

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by John R Walliker

Post by Bill Sloman

Post by john larkin
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

<snip>

Post by john larkin

Post by Cursitor Doom
Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on
board at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the
airlines'
explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll
have to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure
it can't happen going forward.

It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
worked on a plane.

Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
technology.

Not really. They have windows. The doors are not electrically connected
to the fuselage all the way round so they act as slot antennas.
Mobile phones work fine inside planes.
John

Indeed. Anyone can see that zero commercial aircraft are RF-tight. Only a
simpleton would assume that because occupants are unharmed by lightning
strikes it means no EM can leak in. Also bear in mind VHF/UHF comms are
line of sight and planes are exposed to EM from anywhere on the ground
they're visible from, even if it's only half a Watt - the typical output
of a hand-held walkie-talkie.

[Clive Arthur]

On 20/09/2024 06:15, Bill Sloman wrote:

<snip>

Post by Bill Sloman
Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
technology.

When I fly, I choose a window seat, hold my phone to the window and use
the sat-nav app (Magic Earth). It sometimes takes a while to get a fix,
but it always works. If I'm over a country where I've downloaded the
maps, I get a lot of speed warnings.

However, I doubt the cellphone network would work.

[John R Walliker]

Post by Bill Sloman
<snip>

Post by Bill Sloman
Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
technology.

When I fly, I choose a window seat, hold my phone to the window and use
the sat-nav app (Magic Earth).  It sometimes takes a while to get a fix,
but it always works.  If I'm over a country where I've downloaded the
maps, I get a lot of speed warnings.
However, I doubt the cellphone network would work.

At low altitude cellphones would work. However, the network operators
don't like it because a planeload of cellphones would be visible to
a large number of base stations and cause interference to other calls
on the same frequency over a wide area.

John

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Cursitor

Post by Cursitor Doom
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS. And now we have the walkie-talkies! Looks
like Hezbolla are going to have to learn semaphore. ;-)

Indeed.
It looks like Israhell was hacked, as now they destroyed every way they had to get position and planning from Lebanon's forces
by listening in on pagers and walking talkers ..

I have a good Chinese smartphone, an old Nokia I do trust, some other Nokias I am not so sure about
but did not see anything special in those ..

Maybe Hezbollah could use satellite 'Starlink'? and encryption...
Bit harder to spot where the transmitter is...
There are many ways, modulated laser beam to relay post,
people as message carriers, flags, ultrasonics... mirrors, smoke signals :-)
birds or auto-pilot drones with data on SDcards..
There is likely no end to what can be done.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses
making war industry...
US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...

Brain dead evil country.
I liked Reagan, demorats had a shot at him too..
Trump could make peace and avoid WW3, should nominate Elon Musk
as presidential candy .. candidate..
byethen and chameon harry WANT WW3, israhell just a pawn in their game play.

What will be left after all the nuking will be China and Russia
at least their nukes work.
Communism may well be a much better system, at least it is for the people
not for the profit of some idiots only
That is also what you ysee in nature, Darwinism has a story to tell
and lessons to learn.
And there is the intergalactic 'kwantuum if you will' connection of it all
will it allow confused species to persist?

One would think now that we learned so much about RNA and DNA and how it works that
...
and most is of the topic here anyways, keeping alive is topic 1, the play with sjips
is than an option...

Post by Carlos E.R.
this poothing is sjecked by spellshaker

[noel]

Post by Jan Panteltje
Trump could make peace and avoid WW3,

you're fucking kidding right, that cunt had the entire world on brink of
a nuclear ww3, the only reason NK didnt pull that trigger is coz Kimmy,
like the rest of the world, was too busy rolling around the floor
laughing his arse off at the stupid fool runing the U.S.A.

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (19 Sep 2024 22:43:20 +1000) it happened noel

Post by noel

Post by Jan Panteltje
Trump could make peace and avoid WW3,

you're fucking kidding right, that cunt had the entire world on brink of
a nuclear ww3, the only reason NK didnt pull that trigger is coz Kimmy,
like the rest of the world, was too busy rolling around the floor
laughing his arse off at the stupid fool runing the U.S.A.

There was peas during Trump's rule
He tried to use his friend Faulty to hit China with some bat virus, but it
backfired, killed millions, US war industry again.
Then used the US Medical Indudtrial Complex to kill more people
with covid vacine triggered bloodcloths and other side effects etc..
I never got a covid shot, so here I am.
they would not let me in 'effen as I did not have the required 4 shots and down below
the boss was afraid of the competition.

[john larkin]

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses
making war industry...
US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...
Brain dead evil country.

OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.

And invite Germany back in to rule your country.

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses
making war industry...
US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...
Brain dead evil country.

OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.

It was the *US* that had youcrane blow up the Russian Northstream pipelines to the rest of Europe.
Food> from the US? Nothing I eat.
Why do you think your country has the largest deficit in the world.
Becaue nobody wants to buy your shit, China is better and cheaper.
WE have the real chip tech FYI, it scares the US so much they try anything to get us
not exporting it to for example China.
The d*mn F35 that our CVA controlled poly-ticsians bought tho rpelace the old F16s
makes so much noise that there are now groups standing up againt it
and other example for US crap, a ten year old with a stone can kill it.
your Ali-Gator electret will detect it miles away, no radar needed to get a slingshot at it.

Post by john larkin
And invite Germany back in to rule your country.

Well, we are both in the EU and make decisions together with other countries.
Anyasy I decided some time ago to stop with rapis.
Posted about that and why here.
As far as sjips go, raspies are made in the UK FYI.

China and Korea has most stuff I need, teefee, monitors all Samsung
Harddisks:Japan
SDcards: Samsung
Camaras: Japan and smartphone xiaomi from China
Lotd of other Chinese stuff, from GPS receivers to Oleds, to LCD⇧s, LEDs, what not.
Just received a detonation message on my Nokia (also made in Europe) but had removed the
the 'plosives long ago.
Was in the kitchen anyways when it happened, phone in the living room,.
You say you are part German, can you even read or speak German?
Without Von Braun you 'merricans would never have reached the moon.
Without Russia neither ,'merricans were just trying to catch up, show off...
AND on top of that after all the youwish genocide YOU support, makes me think if Hitler had a point.
Was a program about 'Mein Kampf' here on German TV a few month ago, you can
get it online it seems.

It all depends now does it?
YouAshAAAAAAAH's game is to create wars, use CIA to support rebellion parties, movement, now in Venezuela,
tensions you create make utra right getting stronger and stronger.
You never did win from Germany, it was Russia that did win
as it did from Nappy,
YouAshAAAAA was fighting Japanese and when it could not win it used genocide on Japanese citicens
to make Japan surrender, an ather US war crime as was Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc Youcrane
If you had any self-respect you would move to your German [square] roots At least *I* told the CIA to fuck of
when they asked me.

[Jeroen Belleman]

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses
making war industry...
US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...
Brain dead evil country.

OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.

It was the *US* that had youcrane blow up the Russian Northstream pipelines to the rest of Europe.
Food> from the US? Nothing I eat.
Why do you think your country has the largest deficit in the world.
Becaue nobody wants to buy your shit, China is better and cheaper.
WE have the real chip tech FYI, it scares the US so much they try anything to get us
not exporting it to for example China.
The d*mn F35 that our CVA controlled poly-ticsians bought tho rpelace the old F16s
makes so much noise that there are now groups standing up againt it
and other example for US crap, a ten year old with a stone can kill it.
your Ali-Gator electret will detect it miles away, no radar needed to get a slingshot at it.

Post by john larkin
And invite Germany back in to rule your country.

Well, we are both in the EU and make decisions together with other countries.
Anyasy I decided some time ago to stop with rapis.
Posted about that and why here.
As far as sjips go, raspies are made in the UK FYI.
China and Korea has most stuff I need, teefee, monitors all Samsung
Harddisks:Japan
SDcards: Samsung
Camaras: Japan and smartphone xiaomi from China
Lotd of other Chinese stuff, from GPS receivers to Oleds, to LCD⇧s, LEDs, what not.
Just received a detonation message on my Nokia (also made in Europe) but had removed the
the 'plosives long ago.
Was in the kitchen anyways when it happened, phone in the living room,.
You say you are part German, can you even read or speak German?
Without Von Braun you 'merricans would never have reached the moon.
Without Russia neither ,'merricans were just trying to catch up, show off...
AND on top of that after all the youwish genocide YOU support, makes me think if Hitler had a point.
Was a program about 'Mein Kampf' here on German TV a few month ago, you can
get it online it seems.
It all depends now does it?
YouAshAAAAAAAH's game is to create wars, use CIA to support rebellion parties, movement, now in Venezuela,
tensions you create make utra right getting stronger and stronger.
You never did win from Germany, it was Russia that did win
as it did from Nappy,
YouAshAAAAA was fighting Japanese and when it could not win it used genocide on Japanese citicens
to make Japan surrender, an ather US war crime as was Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc Youcrane
If you had any self-respect you would move to your German [square] roots At least *I* told the CIA to fuck of
when they asked me.

You know, Jan, if you want your opinion to carry any weight,
you'd better drop the witticisms.

Jeroen Belleman

[john larkin]

On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:38:18 +0200, Jeroen Belleman

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses
making war industry...
US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...
Brain dead evil country.

OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.

It was the *US* that had youcrane blow up the Russian Northstream pipelines to the rest of Europe.
Food> from the US? Nothing I eat.
Why do you think your country has the largest deficit in the world.
Becaue nobody wants to buy your shit, China is better and cheaper.
WE have the real chip tech FYI, it scares the US so much they try anything to get us
not exporting it to for example China.
The d*mn F35 that our CVA controlled poly-ticsians bought tho rpelace the old F16s
makes so much noise that there are now groups standing up againt it
and other example for US crap, a ten year old with a stone can kill it.
your Ali-Gator electret will detect it miles away, no radar needed to get a slingshot at it.

Post by john larkin
And invite Germany back in to rule your country.

Well, we are both in the EU and make decisions together with other countries.
Anyasy I decided some time ago to stop with rapis.
Posted about that and why here.
As far as sjips go, raspies are made in the UK FYI.
China and Korea has most stuff I need, teefee, monitors all Samsung
Harddisks:Japan
SDcards: Samsung
Camaras: Japan and smartphone xiaomi from China
Lotd of other Chinese stuff, from GPS receivers to Oleds, to LCD?s, LEDs, what not.
Just received a detonation message on my Nokia (also made in Europe) but had removed the
the 'plosives long ago.
Was in the kitchen anyways when it happened, phone in the living room,.
You say you are part German, can you even read or speak German?
Without Von Braun you 'merricans would never have reached the moon.
Without Russia neither ,'merricans were just trying to catch up, show off...
AND on top of that after all the youwish genocide YOU support, makes me think if Hitler had a point.
Was a program about 'Mein Kampf' here on German TV a few month ago, you can
get it online it seems.
It all depends now does it?
YouAshAAAAAAAH's game is to create wars, use CIA to support rebellion parties, movement, now in Venezuela,
tensions you create make utra right getting stronger and stronger.
You never did win from Germany, it was Russia that did win
as it did from Nappy,
YouAshAAAAA was fighting Japanese and when it could not win it used genocide on Japanese citicens
to make Japan surrender, an ather US war crime as was Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc Youcrane
If you had any self-respect you would move to your German [square] roots At least *I* told the CIA to fuck of
when they asked me.

You know, Jan, if you want your opinion to carry any weight,
you'd better drop the witticisms.
Jeroen Belleman

"If you save someone's life, they will hate you forever."

[Bill Sloman]

Post by john larkin
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:38:18 +0200, Jeroen Belleman

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."

<snip>

Post by john larkin
"If you save someone's life, they will hate you forever."

The Russians won WW2 for the allies, and the rest of the alliance has
hated them for it ever since.

The alliance as a whole fought a lot of battles to defeat the Germans,
but the Russians fought more of them than anybody else, and lost more
combatants in the process. Stalin was a murderous psychopath, and there
were excellent reasons to hate him for it, but he didn't do as much
damage to the Russian war effort as Hitler did to the German war effort,
or at least not after the war was under way.

John Larkin has an exaggerated idea idea of the US contribution to
victory in WW2 - the atomic bomb was crucial in frightening Japan into
surrendering, but for the rest the US was useful but rather less than
decisive.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the Israelis
are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish
terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.

[bitrex]

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Carlos E.R.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish
terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.

Lol sure, dream on. It's about the only fight he's interested in
fighting due the eternal war against Islam being one of the main reasons
his Evangelical "friends" are in with this thrice-divorced adulterer in
the first place.

The only choice we have with respect to the Middle East conflict this
November is whether we want US aid to Israel to go up, or way up.

[john larkin]

Post by bitrex

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Carlos E.R.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish
terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.

Lol sure, dream on. It's about the only fight he's interested in
fighting due the eternal war against Islam being one of the main reasons
his Evangelical "friends" are in with this thrice-divorced adulterer in
the first place.
The only choice we have with respect to the Middle East conflict this
November is whether we want US aid to Israel to go up, or way up.

Islam is at war with Islam.

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Post by john larkin
Islam is at war with Islam.

and with all other mutations of this bronze time idol/ghost
and all mutations against each other.

Worst invention ever to hit humanity.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by bitrex

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Carlos E.R.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to
Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups
in the ME on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else.
Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow
themselves to pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have
peace over there.

Lol sure, dream on. It's about the only fight he's interested in
fighting due the eternal war against Islam being one of the main reasons
his Evangelical "friends" are in with this thrice-divorced adulterer in
the first place.
The only choice we have with respect to the Middle East conflict this
November is whether we want US aid to Israel to go up, or way up.

Given what they're doing with it, I'd sooner it be cut off altogether.

[bitrex]

Post by Cursitor Doom
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish
terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.

Incidentally Trump and Harris hardly discussed foreign policy at the
debates at all, there is no novel thinking to be found there.

Outside of the context of Evangelicals and the aforementioned forever
war the overwhelming majority of Americans simply don't give a fuck
about foreign policy as an election issue, so it's a waste of time for
either of them to even think much about it.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by bitrex

Post by Cursitor Doom
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to
Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups
in the ME on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else.
Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow
themselves to pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have
peace over there.

Incidentally Trump and Harris hardly discussed foreign policy at the
debates at all, there is no novel thinking to be found there.
Outside of the context of Evangelicals and the aforementioned forever
war the overwhelming majority of Americans simply don't give a fuck
about foreign policy as an election issue, so it's a waste of time for
either of them to even think much about it.

The US devolved foreign policy to Israel a long, long time ago. And given
as you say the average American isn't bothered, it's not something that'll
merit much air-time in any debate. It'll be all about the Left accusing
Trump of being callous and uncaring and the Right about tax rises under
Harris.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by bitrex

Post by Cursitor Doom
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to
Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang.

Rubbish. The Jewish migration into Israel started much earlier than
that. One of my Jewish acquaintances (now dead) spent time in a kibutz
in Palestine before WW2, though he spent most of WW2 in the UK.

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by bitrex

Post by Cursitor Doom
All these groups
in the ME on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else.

Iran is a much bigger pain in the arse than any of the rest.

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by bitrex

Post by Cursitor Doom
Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow
themselves to pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have
peace over there.

An Iran-dominated middle east won't be peaceful.

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by bitrex
Incidentally Trump and Harris hardly discussed foreign policy at the
debates at all, there is no novel thinking to be found there.

Americans have never cared much about the rest of the world, except as
tourist destinations.

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by bitrex
Outside of the context of Evangelicals and the aforementioned forever
war the overwhelming majority of Americans simply don't give a fuck
about foreign policy as an election issue, so it's a waste of time for
either of them to even think much about it.

The US devolved foreign policy to Israel a long, long time ago.

It's more that the US Jewish lobby is remarkably influential - not so
much because they are all that powerful as because they actually care
what happens to Israel.

Post by Cursitor Doom
And given
as you say the average American isn't bothered, it's not something that'll
merit much air-time in any debate. It'll be all about the Left accusing
Trump of being callous and uncaring and the Right about tax rises under
Harris.

Too true. Of course Trump really is callous and uncaring - he's an
egomaniac, and only cares about himself - and taxes will rise under
Harris because Trump cut taxes when he was in power in a thoroughly
irresponsible way, and that will have to be undone.

[john larkin]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the Israelis
are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish
terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.

The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
lost.

They said that the transmissions in Egyptian tanks had one speed
forward and four in reverse.

It is hard for the muslims to make peace with themselves, much less
with Israel.

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
lost.

What is the fucking biz of the Brits to partition this region?
Everywhere on the world where there are straight frontiers the Brits
are not far away. That means that the people who used to live there
do not have any influence. As much as your Grand-Grand-GrandPa hat on
the food exports from Ireland during the famine.

No, having a king-sized base near the Suez channel is no justification.
But then, it would take more time to call their underlings from Nepals,
India, Africa or down under for help.

And what has the UN to say? An organization with veto countries, a club
of the mighty with payed claqueurs, oohh, democracy..

[john larkin]

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
lost.

What is the fucking biz of the Brits to partition this region?
Everywhere on the world where there are straight frontiers the Brits
are not far away. That means that the people who used to live there
do not have any influence. As much as your Grand-Grand-GrandPa hat on
the food exports from Ireland during the famine.
No, having a king-sized base near the Suez channel is no justification.
But then, it would take more time to call their underlings from Nepals,
India, Africa or down under for help.
And what has the UN to say? An organization with veto countries, a club
of the mighty with payed claqueurs, oohh, democracy..

Given that some people and countries were serfs of a colonial empire,
the ex-British colonies sure seem to do best.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Gerhard Hoffmann

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
lost.

What is the fucking biz of the Brits to partition this region?

They were tasked by the UN (this time).

And they did similar thing in several places. Intentionally setting the
conditions for eternal war in the areas they administered so that they
would be eternally weak.

But again, this is off topic.

[Bill Sloman]

Post by john larkin
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the Israelis
are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish
terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.

The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
lost.
They said that the transmissions in Egyptian tanks had one speed
forward and four in reverse.

Recycled joke from the WW2 Italian campaign.

Post by john larkin
It is hard for the muslims to make peace with themselves, much less
with Israel.

Christians have much the same problem. The hundred years war thinned out
that
particular gene pool, but it does seem to be built into the religious
mind-set.

[Joe Gwinn]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

There are many definitions of terrorism:

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>

Joe Gwinn

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Joe Gwinn
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>

Very true. There is not a full definition, internationally
approved/accepted definition of terrorism.

[Joe Gwinn]

On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 10:23:10 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Joe Gwinn
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>

Very true. There is not a full definition, internationally
approved/accepted definition of terrorism.

There is a repeating pattern here:

We have two countries, A and B, at war with one another.

Country A uses weapons of low accuracy, killing mostly civilians plus
a few unlucky military.

Country B uses weapons of high accuracy, killing mostly military plus
a few unlucky civilians.

Which is better, and why?

Joe Gwinn

[Bill Sloman]

Post by Joe Gwinn
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 10:23:10 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

Post by Joe Gwinn
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

<snip>

Post by Joe Gwinn
We have two countries, A and B, at war with one another.
Country A uses weapons of low accuracy, killing mostly civilians plus
a few unlucky military.
Country B uses weapons of high accuracy, killing mostly military plus
a few unlucky civilians.
Which is better, and why?

Not a relevant question in this context. Israel may be using some
weapons of high accuracy, but what they are mostly using are heavy
weapons which kill a lot more civilians (and children) than the military
they were presumably aimed at.

If lots of civilians end up dead anyway, the "accuracy" of the weapons
is of largely academic interest.

[john larkin]

Post by Joe Gwinn
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>
Joe Gwinn

Does that include slaughtering and raping people at a concert?

[Joe Gwinn]

Post by john larkin

Post by Joe Gwinn
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by john larkin

Post by bitrex

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>
Joe Gwinn

Does that include slaughtering and raping people at a concert?

I don't have the energy to check all those definitions, but one would
think that the concert is clearly terrorism, not just collateral
damage. But the original question concerned collateral damage, as
discussed in another posting.

Joe Gwinn

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when temperature rised above some point
They could heat your smartphone battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

[john larkin]

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when temperature rised above some point
They could heat your smartphone battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

No pager battery has that sort of explosive power, or can be detonated
with precise timing.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
- generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't
normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently
hot.

[Jeroen Belleman]

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
- generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't
normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently
hot.

There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.

Jeroen Belleman

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.

There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.
Jeroen Belleman

Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes
from raising its temperature.

[Phil Hobbs]

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.

There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.
Jeroen Belleman

Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes
from raising its temperature.

Um…. This is an electronics design group. Is it really that hard to
imagine how to make a temperature-triggered detonator?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

[Cursitor Doom]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:10:45 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.

There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.
Jeroen Belleman

Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes
from raising its temperature.

Um…. This is an electronics design group. Is it really that hard to
imagine how to make a temperature-triggered detonator?

Extremely trivial, I'd have thought. But that wasn't my question.

[Jeroen Belleman]

Post by Jeroen Belleman

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.

There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.
Jeroen Belleman

Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes built-in
from raising its temperature.

I don't think it worked like that anyway. If the perpetrators could
subvert the battery packs, I don't see why they could not also subvert
the battery management system to trigger a built-in detonator. The
explosive charge was tiny, from what I gather, maybe even just a
detonator and nothing more. Enough to blow a hole, but too little to
shatter the whole pager.

Off hand, I can think of two or three explosives that would do the
job, but I'll refrain from naming them. Sorry.

Jeroen Belleman

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 21:01:53 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Cursitor

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
- generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't
normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently
hot.

There was more about the chemistry / explosives used in that RT article I posted.
But it looks now the moosrats or whatever they are called had a
special made version of the pagers (and walking talkers) distributed
to the victims.

You can get good cheap portos via ebay from China..
Looks like there was some agent involved pushing these hacked models.
It is not new, many years ago there was something similar.

I have a Baofeng (70 cm) porto too, ham radio set basically, also from ebay.
Beeper I had, very long time ago....
Radios is simple, can make one in a flash... Back to the fifties...

Its weird, some program was mentioning moon landing by the YouAShAAAA
and id did say: few will have been watching that 50 years ago...
Yea, I was at the head control room relaying it to the people's teefees here...
Am I _really_ that old?
Then next thought was: maybe 50 years from now, just imagine the media crap attention when I am 140 years old...
:-)
Was it the food?
OTOH you could be all alone on a little island with just noise on the radio living
from seaweeds and crab, as the only surviver of world-war <enter your sequence number here>..

Or decomposed and the electrons that once made up your body flying in the universe looking for an attractive place...
All is connected...

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
- generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't
normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently
hot.

They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.

Other interesting information in the book "Winston Churchill's Toyshop"
and that was the technology of 80 years ago.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.

They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.

Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot
think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.

Post by Liz Tuddenham
Other interesting information in the book "Winston Churchill's Toyshop"
and that was the technology of 80 years ago.

[Joe Gwinn]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.

They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.

Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot
think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.

PETN heated by a laser.

.<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948>

Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion

Joe Gwinn

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Liz Tuddenham
Other interesting information in the book "Winston Churchill's Toyshop"
and that was the technology of 80 years ago.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by Joe Gwinn
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john

Post by john larkin

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.

It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.

They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.

Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot
think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.

PETN heated by a laser.
.<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948>
Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion

But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
battery. No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
does this. You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
pursue the matter ad infinitum.

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500) it happened Crash Gordon

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

I have just read on RT (en.wpc.rt.com has address 89.191.237.192 if case it is blocked type 89.191.237.192 in your browser)
that e batteros were repalced with ones conating explosives:

Quoting RT:
Lebanon pager blasts ‘indistinguishable from terrorism’ – Snowden
The remotely detonated explosions were “reckless” and indiscriminate, the former NSA contractor argued
Lebanon pager blasts ‘indistinguishable from terrorism’ – Snowden
People arrive at the Red Cross building in Beirut to donate blood following a series of pager explosions in Lebanon on September 17, 2024.
© Houssam Shbaro / Anadolu / Getty Images
The wave of synchronized pager explosions in Lebanon was “reckless” because the method did not account for potential civilian casualties, Edward Snowden has said.
At least nine people were killed and some 2,800 injured across Lebanon when handheld pagers used by Hezbollah members simultaneously exploded on Tuesday.
The pro-Palestinian militant group has blamed Israel for “sinful aggression” and vowed to retaliate.
Israel has not acknowledged any involvement in the blasts.
The Jewish state, however, has conducted airstrikes against Hezbollah members in the past and threatened more “military action” if the group does not stop its cross-border attacks on Israelis.
Writing on X on Tuesday, Snowden suggested the pagers had likely detonated due to “implanted explosives” rather than being hacked because there were “too many consistent, very serious injuries.”

“What Israel has just done is, via *any* method, reckless,” the former NSA contractor argued.
“They blew up countless numbers of people who were driving (meaning cars out of control), shopping (your children are in the stroller standing behind him in the checkout line), et cetera.
Indistinguishable from terrorism.”

Sky News Arabia cited its sources as saying that the Israeli spy agency Mossad placed “a quantity” of the highly explosive material PETN (pentaerythritol tetranitrate) in the batteries of the pagers, and remotely detonated them by raising the temperature of the batteries.
The rigged devices were reportedly part of a shipment that arrived in Lebanon earlier this year.
Eight killed, thousands injured as pagers explode across Lebanon (VIDEO)

The Lebanese authorities said civilians were among those injured.
France 24 cited a Hezbollah source as saying a 10-year-old daughter of a Hezbollah member was killed.
The group acknowledged on Wednesday that eight of its members had been killed, according to Sky News Arabia.

Former IDF spokesman Jonathan Conricus pushed back against accusations that the explosions were tantamount to “indiscriminate” attacks.

“Indiscriminate?? This is as surgical as you could possibly get, only targeting Hezbollah operatives that were important enough to have been issued special comms devices,” he wrote on X.
He added that Hezbollah has been “attacking Israel for over 11 months, forcing 70K Israelis out of their homes.”

Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant warned on Monday that “military action” would be necessary to ensure the safety of Israelis living in the areas close to the Lebanese border.
US officials, however, have publicly discouraged Israel from taking steps that could trigger a full-blown war in Lebanon.

You can share this story on social media:


Will Usenet last?

Every action has a reaction israhell!!!!!!!!

[Wanderer]

How safe do you feel buying on Ebay and Amazon right now?
Now among the fake eclipse glasses and replacement batteries
that catch fire and other cheap Chinese fakes, we also have
to worry about terrorism. Let's open up a new front on supply
chain terrorism. Israel only hit military targets. Explain that
to people who strap bombs on to themselves and blow up rooms full
of people. How do you protect against supply chain terrorism?
How do you keep Gaza protesters from selling on ebay? I remember
Tylenol tampering and whole industries had to adopt tamper proof
products. What now, cradle to grave tracking on all products.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by Wanderer
How safe do you feel buying on Ebay and Amazon right now?

Right now, yes. Going forward: no.

[Crash Gordon]

Post by Crash Gordon
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.

I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
*how* this was accomplished. So I'll answer my own question.

Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature. Then installed
these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
said it should be.

Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
up resulting in detonation of the PETN. I wouldn't be surprised to find
a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
over the threshold. Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
heating when the battery is being charged.

The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.

[john larkin]

Post by Crash Gordon

Post by Crash Gordon
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.

I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
*how* this was accomplished. So I'll answer my own question.
Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature. Then installed
these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
said it should be.
Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
up resulting in detonation of the PETN. I wouldn't be surprised to find
a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
over the threshold. Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
heating when the battery is being charged.
The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.

It sounds easier to just add an explosive and a detonator.

[Crash Gordon]

Post by john larkin
It sounds easier to just add an explosive and a detonator.

That's (apparently) what was done. But these were put in the battery,
so that a supply-chain attack wouldn't involve complex modification of
the devices in transit. Instead, just replace the batteries -- the
device appears normal to visual exam, and functionality (other than
battery life) is unchanged.

Some reports said that the pagers beeped continuously for some time
before detonating, which supports the "heating the battery" theory. A
single page would only create a small amount of heat, which could
dissipate over several minutes. But repeated activations would allow
the heat to build up.

The heat doesn't necessarily set off the warhead directly; rather it
could trigger a thermal sensor to activate a small detonator cap to set
off the main charge. There's a battery right there to power all this.

It's also possible they found a zero-day in the firmware that allowed
them to send a crafted message which accessed the BMS signal path, then
sent a command to a custom BMS IC.

Post by john larkin
easier

Easier isn't always better in spycraft.

[Carlos E.R.]

Post by Crash Gordon

Post by Crash Gordon
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.

I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
*how* this was accomplished.  So I'll answer my own question.
Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature.  Then installed
these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
said it should be.
Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
up resulting in detonation of the PETN.  I wouldn't be surprised to find
a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
over the threshold.  Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
heating when the battery is being charged.

But it appears that they exploded simultaneously or nearly so. Hard to
achieve that synchronicity by heating. I rather think they sent some
type of code, maybe a string.

Methinks that now the factories are a legitimate target for the
"receiving side", unless they can convincingly prove that they are
totally innocent.

I wonder if the entire batch was deployed, whether there are intact
pagers in storage that they can investigate.

Post by Crash Gordon
The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.

[john larkin]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:42:19 +0200, "Carlos E.R."

Post by Carlos E.R.

Post by Crash Gordon

Post by Crash Gordon
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.

I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
*how* this was accomplished.  So I'll answer my own question.
Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature.  Then installed
these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
said it should be.
Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
up resulting in detonation of the PETN.  I wouldn't be surprised to find
a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
over the threshold.  Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
heating when the battery is being charged.

But it appears that they exploded simultaneously or nearly so. Hard to
achieve that synchronicity by heating. I rather think they sent some
type of code, maybe a string.
Methinks that now the factories are a legitimate target for the
"receiving side", unless they can convincingly prove that they are
totally innocent.
I wonder if the entire batch was deployed, whether there are intact
pagers in storage that they can investigate.

Post by Crash Gordon
The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.

Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
analyzed.

It would be interesting to see what they did.

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.

The latest round has been sonic booms during a speech from 'a secret
location'. What better way of identifying the location than by
generating a sonic boom and accurately timing when it is heard in the
speech?

[Robert Roland]

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.

It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of
the explosions were the batteries.

These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
their way to make their products as safe as possible.

There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos
clearly show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The
explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
explosive.

More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by Robert Roland

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.

It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of the
explosions were the batteries.
These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
their way to make their products as safe as possible.
There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos clearly
show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The
explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
explosive.
More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.

The bovine masses simply accept what they're told for the most part. They
seem incapable of critical thinking. We all know here on this group at
least that lithium battery explosions are accompanied by fireballs. They
make great incendiaries no doubt, but as you say, the clips we've seen of
pagers going off appear to be nothing like lithium would give rise to.

[john larkin]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:05:24 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Robert Roland

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.

It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of the
explosions were the batteries.
These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
their way to make their products as safe as possible.
There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos clearly
show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The
explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
explosive.
More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.

The bovine masses simply accept what they're told for the most part. They
seem incapable of critical thinking.

Different people have diferent talents. Maybe your nurse or your wife
is a bovine mass.

[john larkin]

Post by Robert Roland

Post by Crash Gordon
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.

It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of
the explosions were the batteries.
These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
their way to make their products as safe as possible.
There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos
clearly show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The
explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
explosive.
More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.

And have Journalism degrees.