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OT Physics Question
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amdx
2021-04-02 17:26:03 UTC
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I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.

I'm skeptical? I ask them to put a calibrated thermometer in or a
shallow bowl of water in the sauna to see if it boils.

 I was told that the water will never boil because the air to water
interface won't heat the water.

I don't think that's true, but I said, that's why I said a shallow bowl,
the bowl will heat the water and there is not as much water to heat in a
shallow bowl.

So, will water boil in a sauna at 107*C? These are basically low
humidity saunas, with occasional water sprinkled on the rocks.

The sauna forum says no, I say why not?

BTW at 82*C (180*F) 20 minutes is all I can handle. But then I'm a novice!
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whit3rd
2021-04-02 18:29:29 UTC
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Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
I'm skeptical? I ask them to put a calibrated thermometer in or a
shallow bowl of water in the sauna to see if it boils.
I was told that the water will never boil because the air to water
interface won't heat the water.
Probably 'boil' means bubbles from the bottom? That only happens
when the heat is greatest at the bottom of a pot, a shallow dish will
more likely just evaporate from the surface.

The water in a boiling pot has actually been superheated in order to
start to spontaneously create expanding vapor bubbles.
u***@downunder.com
2021-04-02 18:48:46 UTC
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Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
That must be quite dry electric sauna.
Post by amdx
I'm skeptical? I ask them to put a calibrated thermometer in or a
shallow bowl of water in the sauna to see if it boils.
The water density is about 800 tines of the air. The specific heat for
water is 4 times of air, thus the difference is about 3000 times when
comparing volumes. Thus the same energy is required to heat one liter
of water by 1 decree Celsius as heating 3 cubic meters of air by 1
degrees,
Post by amdx
 I was told that the water will never boil because the air to water
interface won't heat the water.
In an open bowl, the water will start to evaporate well below 100 C.
The most energetic molecules will evaporate and the only less
energetic molecules will remain in the water with more or less stable
temperature. The water will evaporate before it boils,

In a high temperature low humidity air the evaporation is fast, but if
the relative humidity is high, not much water can evaporate.

The situation is different with a closed bottle.
Post by amdx
I don't think that's true, but I said, that's why I said a shallow bowl,
the bowl will heat the water and there is not as much water to heat in a
shallow bowl.
So, will water boil in a sauna at 107*C? These are basically low
humidity saunas, with occasional water sprinkled on the rocks.
The sauna forum says no, I say why not?
BTW at 82*C (180*F) 20 minutes is all I can handle. But then I'm a novice!
That is comfortable, if the air is humid, i.e. you throw a lot water
on the stones.
u***@downunder.com
2021-04-02 19:47:30 UTC
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Post by u***@downunder.com
Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
That must be quite dry electric sauna.
At those temperatures, a humid air is very dangerous.

In the "World Sauna Championship" 110 C was used but 0,5 liter water
was added to the stove every 30 s making the air very humid. The last
one leaving the sauna is the winner.


In 2010 most contenders leaved in a few minutes but the last two
remained in the sauna for 6 minutes when the test was interrupted. One
died and the other spent several months in hospital. The championship
was not arranged the following years due to bad publicity,

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-10904691

So don't try it at home !
Flyguy
2021-04-02 22:57:19 UTC
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Post by u***@downunder.com
Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
That must be quite dry electric sauna.
At those temperatures, a humid air is very dangerous.
In the "World Sauna Championship" 110 C was used but 0,5 liter water
was added to the stove every 30 s making the air very humid. The last
one leaving the sauna is the winner.
In 2010 most contenders leaved in a few minutes but the last two
remained in the sauna for 6 minutes when the test was interrupted. One
died and the other spent several months in hospital. The championship
was not arranged the following years due to bad publicity,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-10904691
So don't try it at home !
That's sound like the contest for the lowest flying plane.
Three Jeeps
2021-04-03 21:09:40 UTC
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Post by u***@downunder.com
Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
That must be quite dry electric sauna.
At those temperatures, a humid air is very dangerous.
In the "World Sauna Championship" 110 C was used but 0,5 liter water
was added to the stove every 30 s making the air very humid. The last
one leaving the sauna is the winner.
In 2010 most contenders leaved in a few minutes but the last two
remained in the sauna for 6 minutes when the test was interrupted. One
died and the other spent several months in hospital. The championship
was not arranged the following years due to bad publicity,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-10904691
So don't try it at home !
It amazes me how incredibly stupid human beings can be both to participate in this event or to organize/promote it.
J
amdx
2021-04-02 18:59:10 UTC
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Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
I'm skeptical? I ask them to put a calibrated thermometer in or a
shallow bowl of water in the sauna to see if it boils.
 I was told that the water will never boil because the air to water
interface won't heat the water.
I don't think that's true, but I said, that's why I said a shallow
bowl, the bowl will heat the water and there is not as much water to
heat in a shallow bowl.
So, will water boil in a sauna at 107*C? These are basically low
humidity saunas, with occasional water sprinkled on the rocks.
The sauna forum says no, I say why not?
BTW at 82*C (180*F) 20 minutes is all I can handle. But then I'm a novice!
Thanks guys, I now understand the why.

                                  Mikek
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George Herold
2021-04-03 02:00:43 UTC
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Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
I'm skeptical? I ask them to put a calibrated thermometer in or a
shallow bowl of water in the sauna to see if it boils.
I was told that the water will never boil because the air to water
interface won't heat the water.
I don't think that's true, but I said, that's why I said a shallow bowl,
the bowl will heat the water and there is not as much water to heat in a
shallow bowl.
So, will water boil in a sauna at 107*C? These are basically low
humidity saunas, with occasional water sprinkled on the rocks.
The sauna forum says no, I say why not?
BTW at 82*C (180*F) 20 minutes is all I can handle. But then I'm a novice!
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100 C sounds crazy to me. Maybe they mean 100 F?

George H.
u***@downunder.com
2021-04-03 06:20:02 UTC
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On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 19:00:43 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
Post by George Herold
Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
I'm skeptical? I ask them to put a calibrated thermometer in or a
shallow bowl of water in the sauna to see if it boils.
I was told that the water will never boil because the air to water
interface won't heat the water.
I don't think that's true, but I said, that's why I said a shallow bowl,
the bowl will heat the water and there is not as much water to heat in a
shallow bowl.
So, will water boil in a sauna at 107*C? These are basically low
humidity saunas, with occasional water sprinkled on the rocks.
The sauna forum says no, I say why not?
BTW at 82*C (180*F) 20 minutes is all I can handle. But then I'm a novice!
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
100 C sounds crazy to me. Maybe they mean 100 F?
There is no magic about passing 100 C, unless you look at the
thermometer.:-).

As long as you are sweating and especially if the air is dry and the
sweat immediately evaporate, this will remove a lot of heat from the
body. However, if you sit too long in the sauna and become dehydrated,
the sweating stops and the body temperature will rapidly increase and
finally kill you.

Just spend only a while in the hot sauna, take a dip in an icy lake,
Very refreshing. Take a beer to avoid dehydration and repeat this
hot/cold cycle multiple times. Do not fall asleep in the sauna.
amdx
2021-04-03 12:19:28 UTC
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Post by George Herold
Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
I'm skeptical? I ask them to put a calibrated thermometer in or a
shallow bowl of water in the sauna to see if it boils.
I was told that the water will never boil because the air to water
interface won't heat the water.
I don't think that's true, but I said, that's why I said a shallow bowl,
the bowl will heat the water and there is not as much water to heat in a
shallow bowl.
So, will water boil in a sauna at 107*C? These are basically low
humidity saunas, with occasional water sprinkled on the rocks.
The sauna forum says no, I say why not?
BTW at 82*C (180*F) 20 minutes is all I can handle. But then I'm a novice!
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
100 C sounds crazy to me. Maybe they mean 100 F?
George H.
 No, they are working with Celsius. I have had mine  at 195*F (90.5*C)
at head height (sitting on the bench) while using it.

There is a stratification of the heat in the sauna, in fact, I was so
curious about it I measured it.

I had 111*F difference between the floor and head height. I'm fine with
the stratification, why heat where I'm not sitting.

I have thought about a slow quiet fan to move some hot air off the
ceiling to the 3 ft level where I lay. But I don't know if a fan

that will run long at 200*F.

  The other thing is Loyly, putting water on the rocks. it produces an
intense feeling of heat, but even though it feels hotter

it is more comfortable than the dry heat. I thought maybe the
temperature actually increased, but have not been able to see any change
in my thermometer.

I kept reading about health benefits of sauna use, so I decided to build
a small sauna. 4ft x 7ft x 6ft tall.

I found a deal on a used 5.2kW heater which is very large for such a
small sauna.

I gets up to temp in 15 minutes.

   What I have noticed is, I'm sleeping better, and I've done a few
before and after BP tests, and I find my BP is lower after a sauna, cold
shower and

a short relaxing time. Also, I have had back pain since herniating two
discs in 2010, I now have less  back pain, however I don't know that it
is the sauna.

It may be that I'm in a confined space with 20 or 30 minutes to kill, so
I do back stretching exercises. Whatever, it has helped.

List of possible health benefits with references at the bottom.
https://www.theenergyblueprint.com/benefits-of-saunas/

   btw, I was always a hot as I can get it shower guy and didn't like
cold showers, after a sauna, I take a cold shower and it's fine.

I'm in Florida, spring time so, that cold water temp is 70*F (21*C),
when winter comes I may not be able to handle the cold water.

Mikek
George Herold
2021-04-04 02:43:27 UTC
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Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
I'm skeptical? I ask them to put a calibrated thermometer in or a
shallow bowl of water in the sauna to see if it boils.
I was told that the water will never boil because the air to water
interface won't heat the water.
I don't think that's true, but I said, that's why I said a shallow bowl,
the bowl will heat the water and there is not as much water to heat in a
shallow bowl.
So, will water boil in a sauna at 107*C? These are basically low
humidity saunas, with occasional water sprinkled on the rocks.
The sauna forum says no, I say why not?
BTW at 82*C (180*F) 20 minutes is all I can handle. But then I'm a novice!
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
100 C sounds crazy to me. Maybe they mean 100 F?
George H.
No, they are working with Celsius. I have had mine at 195*F (90.5*C)
at head height (sitting on the bench) while using it.
There is a stratification of the heat in the sauna, in fact, I was so
curious about it I measured it.
I had 111*F difference between the floor and head height. I'm fine with
the stratification, why heat where I'm not sitting.
I have thought about a slow quiet fan to move some hot air off the
ceiling to the 3 ft level where I lay. But I don't know if a fan
that will run long at 200*F.
The other thing is Loyly, putting water on the rocks. it produces an
intense feeling of heat, but even though it feels hotter
it is more comfortable than the dry heat. I thought maybe the
temperature actually increased, but have not been able to see any change
in my thermometer.
I kept reading about health benefits of sauna use, so I decided to build
a small sauna. 4ft x 7ft x 6ft tall.
I found a deal on a used 5.2kW heater which is very large for such a
small sauna.
I gets up to temp in 15 minutes.
What I have noticed is, I'm sleeping better, and I've done a few
before and after BP tests, and I find my BP is lower after a sauna, cold
shower and
a short relaxing time. Also, I have had back pain since herniating two
discs in 2010, I now have less back pain, however I don't know that it
is the sauna.
It may be that I'm in a confined space with 20 or 30 minutes to kill, so
I do back stretching exercises. Whatever, it has helped.
List of possible health benefits with references at the bottom.
https://www.theenergyblueprint.com/benefits-of-saunas/
btw, I was always a hot as I can get it shower guy and didn't like
cold showers, after a sauna, I take a cold shower and it's fine.
I'm in Florida, spring time so, that cold water temp is 70*F (21*C),
when winter comes I may not be able to handle the cold water.
Mikek
Huh, sorry. I figure I put meat in the oven at 100C and it slowly cooks.
George H.
u***@downunder.com
2021-04-04 04:29:54 UTC
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On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 19:43:27 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
Post by George Herold
100 C sounds crazy to me. Maybe they mean 100 F?
George H.
No, they are working with Celsius. I have had mine at 195*F (90.5*C)
at head height (sitting on the bench) while using it.
There is a stratification of the heat in the sauna, in fact, I was so
curious about it I measured it.
I had 111*F difference between the floor and head height. I'm fine with
the stratification, why heat where I'm not sitting.
I have thought about a slow quiet fan to move some hot air off the
ceiling to the 3 ft level where I lay. But I don't know if a fan
that will run long at 200*F.
The other thing is Loyly, putting water on the rocks. it produces an
intense feeling of heat, but even though it feels hotter
it is more comfortable than the dry heat. I thought maybe the
temperature actually increased, but have not been able to see any change
in my thermometer.
I kept reading about health benefits of sauna use, so I decided to build
a small sauna. 4ft x 7ft x 6ft tall.
I found a deal on a used 5.2kW heater which is very large for such a
small sauna.
I gets up to temp in 15 minutes.
What I have noticed is, I'm sleeping better, and I've done a few
before and after BP tests, and I find my BP is lower after a sauna, cold
shower and
a short relaxing time. Also, I have had back pain since herniating two
discs in 2010, I now have less back pain, however I don't know that it
is the sauna.
It may be that I'm in a confined space with 20 or 30 minutes to kill, so
I do back stretching exercises. Whatever, it has helped.
List of possible health benefits with references at the bottom.
https://www.theenergyblueprint.com/benefits-of-saunas/
btw, I was always a hot as I can get it shower guy and didn't like
cold showers, after a sauna, I take a cold shower and it's fine.
I'm in Florida, spring time so, that cold water temp is 70*F (21*C),
when winter comes I may not be able to handle the cold water.
Mikek
Huh, sorry. I figure I put meat in the oven at 100C and it slowly cooks.
George H.
Does your peace of meat have blood circulation and does it perspirate
to get rid of the external heat ?

If either fails for a human in a sauna, you are dead quite quickly,
Jasen Betts
2021-04-03 03:25:51 UTC
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Post by amdx
I'm reading a sauna forum and I am told they have there sauna at 107*C
to 110*C.
I'm skeptical? I ask them to put a calibrated thermometer in or a
shallow bowl of water in the sauna to see if it boils.
 I was told that the water will never boil because the air to water
interface won't heat the water.
aim a blowtorch at a puddle of water and see what happens.
Post by amdx
I don't think that's true, but I said, that's why I said a shallow bowl,
the bowl will heat the water and there is not as much water to heat in a
shallow bowl.
same problem as the blowtorch, heat entering from above will heat the
water which will evaporate immediately, boiling happens when water is
heated from below
Post by amdx
So, will water boil in a sauna at 107*C?
no, water boils at 100C :)
Post by amdx
These are basically low humidity saunas, with occasional water sprinkled on the rocks.
stick a empty cast iron pot in there and allow it to get hot. then add
a few drops of 100C water.

or use a baloon with a little water in it, or a pot covered with cling
film.
--
Jasen.
Mikko OH2HVJ
2021-04-04 06:47:44 UTC
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Post by amdx
So, will water boil in a sauna at 107*C? These are basically low
humidity saunas, with occasional water sprinkled on the rocks.
The sauna forum says no, I say why not?
The heat power transfer from 110°C air to water is quite small compared
to the heat capacity of water and latent heat of evaporation. In
addition, there's evaporation from the surface, which may surpass the
heat transfer from air.
Post by amdx
BTW at 82*C (180*F) 20 minutes is all I can handle. But then I'm a novice!
That's roughly what I enjoy the most. Sometimes a good hot sauna
compared to cooling outside and short swim is icy water is just the
ticket, though.

-- mikko
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
2021-04-08 02:21:13 UTC
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Post by amdx
So, will water boil in a sauna at 107*C?
Evaporate eventually. Water takes a lot of energy to 'push through' the
phase change from liquid to gas. So it will take some time. Probably longer
than you can stand to sit and watch it.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:***@Hovnanian.com
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