Discussion:
Updating Windows 7 machines to Windows 10
(too old to reply)
Winfield Hill
2016-02-03 18:45:24 UTC
Permalink
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.

There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Jan Panteltje
2016-02-03 19:09:33 UTC
Permalink
On a sunny day (3 Feb 2016 10:45:24 -0800) it happened Winfield Hill
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I am not a windows user.
But from the viewpoint of 'upgrades' (of my Linux boxes),
I ONLY 'upgrade' when I buy new hardware.
Then usually I have to spend days getting things to work again due to
incompatible libraries, changed APIs, yet an other window manager, totally new systems etc,

I am sure Micro-Sof is the same.

I see software as part of the hardware, especially the OS (it should be an interface to the hardware ONLY)
so it should not be 'updated'.
Drivers and their availability is a different thing.

So, and from the point of view of 'security', use a good firewall,
or if it is your design PCs, do not connect them to the internet at all,
or even only to the LAN when copying stuff.

Works for me,
I have one old box with win98... dual boot with Linux.
All the rest is Linux.

You can get a Win10 + Android double boot computah for 141 $ these days:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/351572686634
for that money versus the hours spent 'upgrading', the choice would be easy.
Are those specs good enough?
I read positive user experiences about that, have not tried it,
When somebody get Linux running on it I may try one, they have Linux running on the X7.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-03 23:45:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Panteltje
I am not a windows user.
Then you should not even have responded.
Post by Jan Panteltje
But from the viewpoint of 'upgrades' (of my Linux boxes),
I ONLY 'upgrade' when I buy new hardware.
Then usually I have to spend days getting things to work again due to
incompatible libraries, changed APIs, yet an other window manager, totally new systems etc,
Damn you are a lot more stupid than I originally assessed you to be.
amdx
2016-02-04 16:16:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
Post by Jan Panteltje
I am not a windows user.
Then you should not even have responded.
Post by Jan Panteltje
But from the viewpoint of 'upgrades' (of my Linux boxes),
I ONLY 'upgrade' when I buy new hardware.
Then usually I have to spend days getting things to work again due to
incompatible libraries, changed APIs, yet an other window manager,
totally new systems etc,
Damn you are a lot more stupid than I originally assessed you to be.
And, how does that make you feel?

Mikek
Jim Thompson
2016-02-04 16:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by amdx
Post by DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
Post by Jan Panteltje
I am not a windows user.
Then you should not even have responded.
Post by Jan Panteltje
But from the viewpoint of 'upgrades' (of my Linux boxes),
I ONLY 'upgrade' when I buy new hardware.
Then usually I have to spend days getting things to work again due to
incompatible libraries, changed APIs, yet an other window manager,
totally new systems etc,
Damn you are a lot more stupid than I originally assessed you to be.
And, how does that make you feel?
Mikek
If you don't respond to DecadentLoser you will spare us the annoyance
of seeing his crap.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Tom Del Rosso
2016-02-04 14:53:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Panteltje
I have one old box with win98... dual boot with Linux.
Might as well put Win 2k on that for a big improvement in stability.

--
Jan Panteltje
2016-02-04 15:18:58 UTC
Permalink
On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:53:30 -0500) it happened "Tom Del Rosso"
Post by Tom Del Rosso
Post by Jan Panteltje
I have one old box with win98... dual boot with Linux.
Might as well put Win 2k on that for a big improvement in stability.
mm, the only reason win98 is on it is for my Canon flat bed scanner,
and I dropped that one, and my Canon camera is just as good to archive documents.
But the Linux part has a working version of LTspice with an old version of wine that does not crash X windows,
so I sometimes boot it just for that.
And since I put an other graphics card in it win98 only runs in low resolution...
so it is useless anyways.


Very good box actually, a real Tyan mobo with even an ISA slot!
But, I just did the 100 days uptime on this box:
panteltje12: ~ # uptime
16:13:40 up 107 days, 9:02, 10 users, load average: 0.09, 0.80, 1.67

panteltje12: ~ # uname -a
Linux panteltje12 2.6.37.6-smp #1 SMP Sat Aug 3 19:23:48 CEST 2013 i686 AMD Sempron(tm) 145 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux

This one has been on 24/7 since Aug 2013...

Who needs MSwindows and for WHAT????
The last power down was when the mains failed,
happens once or twice a year here.
j***@gmail.com
2016-02-05 08:51:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:53:30 -0500) it happened "Tom Del Rosso"
Post by Tom Del Rosso
Post by Jan Panteltje
I have one old box with win98... dual boot with Linux.
Might as well put Win 2k on that for a big improvement in stability.
mm, the only reason win98 is on it is for my Canon flat bed scanner,
and I dropped that one, and my Canon camera is just as good to archive documents.
But the Linux part has a working version of LTspice with an old version of wine that does not crash X windows,
so I sometimes boot it just for that.
And since I put an other graphics card in it win98 only runs in low resolution...
so it is useless anyways.
Very good box actually, a real Tyan mobo with even an ISA slot!
panteltje12: ~ # uptime
16:13:40 up 107 days, 9:02, 10 users, load average: 0.09, 0.80, 1.67
panteltje12: ~ # uname -a
Linux panteltje12 2.6.37.6-smp #1 SMP Sat Aug 3 19:23:48 CEST 2013 i686 AMD Sempron(tm) 145 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
you can update to kernel 3.x and you should see some speed improvements, bettere memory managemente, etc.

Bye Jack
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-05 11:50:41 UTC
Permalink
snip
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by Jan Panteltje
Very good box actually, a real Tyan mobo with even an ISA slot!
panteltje12: ~ # uptime
16:13:40 up 107 days, 9:02, 10 users, load average: 0.09, 0.80, 1.67
panteltje12: ~ # uname -a Linux panteltje12 2.6.37.6-smp #1 SMP Sat Aug
3 19:23:48 CEST 2013 i686 AMD Sempron(tm) 145 Processor AuthenticAMD
GNU/Linux
you can update to kernel 3.x and you should see some speed improvements,
bettere memory managemente, etc.
Bye Jack
Yeah, that old kernel also has vulnerabilities.

I cannot believe he is so far behind the curve that he cannot even
update his system because he wants his 'uptime' number to be high. He is
beyond childish in so many ways. And a stupid and lazy fuckhead too.
Jan Panteltje
2016-02-05 13:19:56 UTC
Permalink
On a sunny day (Fri, 5 Feb 2016 00:51:46 -0800 (PST)) it happened
Il giorno giovedì 4 febbraio 2016 16:19:05 UTC+1, Jan Panteltje ha scritt=
On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:53:30 -0500) it happened "Tom Del Ross=
o"
Post by Tom Del Rosso
Post by Jan Panteltje
I have one old box with win98... dual boot with Linux.
Might as well put Win 2k on that for a big improvement in stability.
mm, the only reason win98 is on it is for my Canon flat bed scanner,
and I dropped that one, and my Canon camera is just as good to archive do=
cuments.
But the Linux part has a working version of LTspice with an old version o=
f wine that does not crash X windows,
so I sometimes boot it just for that.
And since I put an other graphics card in it win98 only runs in low resol=
ution...
so it is useless anyways.
Very good box actually, a real Tyan mobo with even an ISA slot!
panteltje12: ~ # uptime
16:13:40 up 107 days, 9:02, 10 users, load average: 0.09, 0.80, 1.67
panteltje12: ~ # uname -a
Linux panteltje12 2.6.37.6-smp #1 SMP Sat Aug 3 19:23:48 CEST 2013 i686 A=
MD Sempron(tm) 145 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
you can update to kernel 3.x and you should see some speed improvements, be=
ttere memory managemente, etc.
Bye Jack
I do not get it, people want 'speed improvements',
just some idea what often runs here at the same time:
2 security cam recordings
1 satellite recording
1 recording from cable from some movie.
a http server
web browser, youtube videos (some in HD),
subtitle control (to add stuff to picture).
news reader, email, sound (music),
compilations, editors (program source), pdf documents (data sheets), etc

panteltje12: ~ # top
Top - 13:21:18 up 108 days, 6:09, 10 users, load average: 1.14, 0.88, 0.91
Tasks: 159 total, 2 running, 157 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 41.2%us, 5.6%sy, 1.3%ni, 50.5%id, 0.3%wa, 0.0%hi, 1.0%si, 0.0%st
Mem: 1794160k total, 1749740k used, 44420k free, 48572k buffers
Swap: 614396k total, 162128k used, 452268k free, 1065336k cached


PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
12305 root 20 0 76352 17m 6736 S 13.9 1.0 4:20.79 ffplay_p
12262 root 20 0 77660 18m 7892 S 12.9 1.0 3:59.78 ffplay_p
8009 root 20 0 14752 8936 1004 R 5.6 0.5 19:24.06 mcamip
7953 root 20 0 14744 8880 988 S 5.0 0.5 19:28.48 mcamip2
8010 root 20 0 36752 17m 1260 R 3.3 1.0 14:44.90 ffmpeg
2201 root 19 -1 280m 200m 6180 S 3.0 11.4 6978:59 X
7954 root 20 0 28964 9m 1236 S 1.7 0.6 9:48.34 ffmpeg
5376 root 20 0 723m 217m 27m S 0.7 12.4 4:45.17 seamonkey
12306 root 20 0 27340 6948 2656 S 0.7 0.4 0:06.55 ffmpeg
12438 root 20 0 16016 3736 2308 S 0.7 0.2 0:04.55 NewsFleX
2481 root 20 0 4288 516 200 S 0.3 0.0 626:51.28 rxvt
5096 root 20 0 14648 680 416 S 0.3 0.0 128:19.55 xmpl
7951 root 20 0 4572 1176 808 S 0.3 0.1 3:08.75 wget2

Not much memory, only using one core (this processor has more cores that can be enabled), only run a 32 bit Linux on this box (compatibility),
and guess what:
I have plenty of computah power left.

There is a big misunderstanding in the world, people want quad cores, some want even more,
and all they do is browse the web and read email.
and then they over-clock, what not.
Maybe it is brain-wash by the sellers and manufacturers of hardware.

Tell you what, I bought a Russian Huawei G4 stick (was many times cheaper on ebay than locally),
put it in a raspberry pi, and configured the raspi as a 4G router.
Set my PC to use it as gateway, and hey, online...

The world is flooded with little Linux things, everything here runs Linux, my cable modem, my vacuum robot cleaner,
my WiFi access points, my Samsung TV, my DVB-S transmitter, my laptops, my PCs...
and none of all these things has a 'speed' problem, except for the DVB-S raspi that is topped out for FEC 1/2.

I do understand that there are people running slimulations of I dunno what to find solutions
to I dunno what in I dunno how short a time,
NASA being a typical example, while most of these things use incomplete equations and give unreliable results.
Glow ball worming comes to mind, and, if you look into history
you will find the Club of Rome who predicted the end of fossil fuels and the global death of humanity due to over-population
running a half witted BASIC program on one of the first IBM PCs, and were 100% wrong if not 1000%.

Sure, when paging through pdf files I COULD use a better speed, but that is likely because my AMD build in graphics on
this PC sucks rescaling. Could be Linux drivers too, on the other Linux PC with Nvidia hardware and Nvidia drivers it flies.

As to Linux 3 the club changed things again IIR the DVB API, and for sure the drivers for some of my webcams.
And hell for them Raspis I do not even know what Linux version it is, I grabbed the image (Debian based)
years ago, and have changed everything since then so my PCs and raspis have the same window manager,
apt-get update gets completely confused and writes books full of error messages,
but..; everything works!
Because I KNOW how it works and I wrote most of the soft I use.

I strongly recommend not doing kernel upgrades on an existing system unless you know exactly why and how.
This now runs Slackware (no idea what version, old version),
and does all I need.
I compiled that kernel and many things broke.
I know more fun things to do, just rewrote and improved some old program I wrote, added features.
BUT if I buy a new PC (unlikely like this, will go for a Pipo perhaps) I will do the fight rewriting all my stuff to get it working .
After doing that 4 or 10 times it is _NOT_ what I am interested in (since running Linux 1998).
Again, OS is part of the hardware, it is an INTERFACE between the hardware and the application programs, it should NOT change all the time,
and in should not be more than that,
BUT sales are sales, new hardware needs to be sold... the software manufacturers are in bed with the hardware manufacturers.
Every thing needs a GUI, preferable with touch screen.

I know, I spend 6 hours coding to make a GUI for some program that I can do with 1 line of code in bash and a few entries in crontab.
Soon people will no longer be able to write, only to point at things, like in the supermarket, endlessly walk along shelves looking for what you
want, getting what you do not want as a bonus, while in the old store you could ask the shopkeeper
and he would give it to you.
No command line is a disaster, so I run 8 rxvts on this box in 9 virtual screens with one virtual screen with also a web browser,
and one with a few pictures you can click on if you forgot the program name.
Thank you for your attention.

I did some biking this morning, just a 3 city tour, to stay in condition,
there was a bit of wind too, so the extra energy now goes into finger exercises hitting these keys,
pay no attention to it, it may be dangerous to read these ideas.
It may lead to the demise of the US economy and collapse of civilization as we know it.
If you upgrade kernel of course, eh I mean upgrade to win10.
Oh wtf,
now take for example my old tube color TV, it booted faster (if booted is a usable word) than my 3D HD LCD.
And the colors were better, angle you could view it was better, and even used less power.
And in the same way US now uses a Russian taxi to just a few hundred miles up, the ISS,
while in the past they routinely could do a moon return.
So tech NO... logic is moving backwards.
Transistors ? No.
Back to the Flintstones and carve in stone, start all over again.
that will happen anyways once the nukes rain.
And then what do you have, all EMPed semiconductors.
Maybe better stop here, but be careful upgrading that box.

Did you see how many lines of text I wrote in how short a time? (Never mind how long it took you to read though).
See, no need for faster, just cheaper and better will do,
I did not have much to say as you probably noticed.
But the essence of it is very true.
j***@gmail.com
2016-02-05 13:49:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by Jan Panteltje
panteltje12: ~ # uname -a
Linux panteltje12 2.6.37.6-smp #1 SMP Sat Aug 3 19:23:48 CEST 2013 i686 A=
MD Sempron(tm) 145 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
you can update to kernel 3.x and you should see some speed improvements, be=
ttere memory managemente, etc.
Bye Jack
I do not get it, people want 'speed improvements',
It means you get more with the same HW just installing a newer piece of SW.

And you can have 2 or more kernel sitting around in the HD.
When you boot you choose the kernel you want to use.

In my linuxbox (an Alix 1c from pcengines.ch) I have at least 2 kernel installed: one relatively old that I know for sure that works, a newer one that is updated from times to times automatically by the distro, and now and then I try the newest to see if there are improvements.
The Alix started with a 2.6.x kernel. At a certain point I decided to upgrade to the 3.x: improvement were huge.
Unfortunately for reason I'm yet to understand Ihave a panic booting with a 4.x kernel, so I'm stuck with the 3.x.

Point is: trying a new kernel is easy and the fallback in case of problem easier.

Bye Jack
Jan Panteltje
2016-02-05 15:35:00 UTC
Permalink
On a sunny day (Fri, 5 Feb 2016 05:49:42 -0800 (PST)) it happened
In my linuxbox (an Alix 1c from pcengines.ch) I have at least 2 kernel inst=
alled: one relatively old that I know for sure that works, a newer one that=
is updated from times to times automatically by the distro, and now and th=
en I try the newest to see if there are improvements.
The Alix started with a 2.6.x kernel. At a certain point I decided to upgra=
de to the 3.x: improvement were huge.
Unfortunately for reason I'm yet to understand Ihave a panic booting with a=
4.x kernel, so I'm stuck with the 3.x.
Point is: trying a new kernel is easy and the fallback in case of problem e=
asier.
Bye Jack
Sure trying is easy,
I have 2 kernels on this one, in fact 2 completely different distros,
from /mnt/sda1/boot/grub/grub.cfg :

set default ='0'
set timeout=60

menuentry 'slackware linux kernel 2.6.37.6-smp 32 bit on sda8'{
set root='(hd0,8)'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-huge-smp-2.6.37.6-smp root=/dev/sda8

#legacy_kernel '/boot/vmlinuz-huge-smp-2.6.37.6-smp' 'root=/dev/sda8'
}

menuentry 'grml linux kernel 2.6.21 32 bit on sda5'{
set root='(hd0,5)'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.21 root=/dev/sda5
}


The old one is simple a ported partition from an older PC.
use a rescue disk, tar it, and untar it in some partition on the new PC.
Both a backup and a way to run the old programs, assuming the hardware supports it.

It is not true that a newer kernel is by definition faster, or even works.
I had a bad argument (and my last) with the kernel developers when one kernel completely sucked.
Had to point out that thousands of people wasted thousands of hours trying that crap (google was full of the problem),
and that they should really test things before a release, and not moan if somebody gave feedback directly like I did,

So YMM.

My laptop has Ubuntu in the first partition (64 bit) and 3 Slackware kernels
including 3.x so I know about it.
I never run the 3.x kernel as there were way too many incompatibilities.
Even the 64 bit normal kernel has issues.

OTOH we should not complain.
the only distro I ever financially contributes to was Debian, Debian runs on my raspis.
But even then when I got Debian disks send to me it did not work,
did not take long to find the boot disk was the data disk and the data disk the boot disk,
but God help a newcomer.

And I make mistakes too, being a neural net,

Your ALIX 1c seems to be a nice little computah,
have you seen this box?
http://nl.aliexpress.com/item/Wintel-W8-Dual-Boot-Intel-Mini-PC-Windows10-Android-4-4-Z3735F-Quad-Core-64Bit-TV/32517203131.html?spm=2114.010208.3.45.CjoOWu&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_2_505_506_503_504_301_502_10001_10002_10016_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_10009_10008,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6449&btsid=f4208580-be25-4d20-8811-88582307bdff
Maybe it could be booted with a Linux stick...
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-05 15:00:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Fri, 5 Feb 2016 00:51:46 -0800 (PST)) it happened
Il giorno giovedì 4 febbraio 2016 16:19:05 UTC+1, Jan Panteltje ha
On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:53:30 -0500) it happened "Tom Del Ross=
o"
Post by Tom Del Rosso
Post by Jan Panteltje
I have one old box with win98... dual boot with Linux.
Might as well put Win 2k on that for a big improvement in stability.
mm, the only reason win98 is on it is for my Canon flat bed scanner,
and I dropped that one, and my Canon camera is just as good to archive do=
cuments.
But the Linux part has a working version of LTspice with an old version o=
f wine that does not crash X windows,
so I sometimes boot it just for that.
And since I put an other graphics card in it win98 only runs in low resol=
ution...
so it is useless anyways.
Very good box actually, a real Tyan mobo with even an ISA slot!
panteltje12: ~ # uptime
16:13:40 up 107 days, 9:02, 10 users, load average: 0.09, 0.80, 1.67
panteltje12: ~ # uname -a Linux panteltje12 2.6.37.6-smp #1 SMP Sat
Aug 3 19:23:48 CEST 2013 i686 A=
MD Sempron(tm) 145 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
you can update to kernel 3.x and you should see some speed improvements, be=
ttere memory managemente, etc.
Bye Jack
I do not get it,
We were already fully aware of that fact.
Post by Jan Panteltje
people want 'speed improvements',
That decidedly rules you out.
Nobody gives a fat flying fuck what all your streams say to *you* about
what *you* think "speed" is.

snipped retarded list
Post by Jan Panteltje
panteltje12: ~ # top Top - 13:21:18 up 108 days, 6:09, 10 users, load
average: 1.14, 0.88, 0.91 Tasks: 159 total, 2 running, 157 sleeping,
0 stopped, 0 zombie Cpu(s): 41.2%us, 5.6%sy, 1.3%ni, 50.5%id,
0.3%wa, 0.0%hi, 1.0%si, 0.0%st Mem: 1794160k total, 1749740k used,
44420k free, 48572k buffers Swap: 614396k total, 162128k used,
452268k free, 1065336k cached
Get a clue.. Your "list of all your streaming events" is a lie. "2
running, 157 sleeping" tells it all, idiot.

snipped retarded redundant task listing.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Not much memory, only using one core (this processor has more cores that
can be enabled),
You are too stupid to know how many cores "you are running" and too
stupid to know that *you* are not in direct control of that fact either.
Post by Jan Panteltje
only run a 32 bit Linux on this box (compatibility),
I have plenty of computah power left.
And too stupid to know what you are wasting. You have obviously not
seen real computing CPU intensive tasks running before.
Post by Jan Panteltje
There is a big misunderstanding in the world,
No. More like in between your ears, boy.
Post by Jan Panteltje
people want quad cores,
some want even more,
and all they do is browse the web and read email.
Fuck you, you presumptuous fucking worm./
Post by Jan Panteltje
and then they over-clock, what not.
Maybe it is brain-wash by the sellers and manufacturers of hardware.
When a gaming OCer goes to get gear to build a new machine, there is
exactly ZERO sales staff there "helping" him make choices, you stupid
fucktard.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Tell you what,
You couldn't tell a worm what.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I bought a Russian Huawei G4 stick (was many times
cheaper on ebay than locally),
You're an idiot. Should have been pennies, but you probably paid quite
a bit more than it is worth.
Post by Jan Panteltje
put it in a raspberry pi, and configured the raspi as a 4G router.
So you flipped a G4 into a 4G eh? Bwuahahaha!
Post by Jan Panteltje
Set my PC to use it as gateway, and hey, online...
Wow... You really are stupid.
Post by Jan Panteltje
The world is flooded with little Linux things,
Yeah, dumbfuck.

Those of us who do keep up with reality know it as "The IOT".
Post by Jan Panteltje
everything here runs
Linux, my cable modem,
Don't be so sure.
Post by Jan Panteltje
my vacuum robot cleaner,
Lazy pussy boy.
Post by Jan Panteltje
my WiFi access points, my Samsung TV, my DVB-S transmitter, my laptops, my PCs...
Oh boy! More bullshit listings none of us give a fat flying fuck about.
Post by Jan Panteltje
and none of all these things has a 'speed' problem, except for the DVB-S
raspi that is topped out for FEC 1/2.
My fucking cubox beats raspi three times over.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I do understand that there are people running slimulations of I dunno
what to find solutions to I dunno what
Wow.. Is your name Donald J. Trump? Because that stupid crack was
nearly as stupid as the crap he spews.
Post by Jan Panteltje
in I dunno how short a time,
That's for damned sure.
Post by Jan Panteltje
NASA being a typical example,
Fuck you, retarded chump.
Post by Jan Panteltje
while most of these things use incomplete
equations and give unreliable results.
You are too stupid, incomplete, and unreliable to know.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Glow ball worming comes to mind, and, if you look into history you will
find the Club of Rome who predicted the end of fossil fuels and the
global death of humanity due to over-population running a half witted
BASIC program on one of the first IBM PCs, and were 100% wrong if not
1000%.
You are one stupid putz, motherfucker.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Sure, when paging through pdf files I COULD use a better speed,
Between your ears.
Post by Jan Panteltje
but that
is likely because my AMD build in graphics on this PC sucks rescaling.
YOU suck at knowing what to run, chump. The fault lies in PEBKAC.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Could be Linux drivers too, on the other Linux PC with Nvidia hardware
and Nvidia drivers it flies.
No shit. And your retarded ass thinks its drivers and configuration?
Couldn't possibly be superior hardware, eh? You really are stupid.
Post by Jan Panteltje
As to Linux 3 the club changed things again IIR the DVB API, and for
sure the drivers for some of my webcams.
One of those 157 sleeping processes, eh? Bwuahahahah!
Post by Jan Panteltje
And hell for them Raspis I do not even know what Linux version it is, I
grabbed the image (Debian based)
years ago, and have changed everything since then so my PCs and raspis
have the same window manager,
You are now admitting to being a Linux configuration pussy as well. You
claim to "experiment" with electronics, but have no time to learn about
this Linux you so whole heartedly tout and spout about.
Post by Jan Panteltje
apt-get update gets completely confused and writes books full of error messages,
Yes. A combination of the lack of grasp between your ears and the lack
of grasp of how to set up your sources.list file correctly. Doh!
Post by Jan Panteltje
but..; everything works!
Because I KNOW how it works and I wrote most of the soft I use.
Sure you did. Yet you are brain dead about apt. Yeah... I believe
you. NOT!
Post by Jan Panteltje
I strongly recommend not doing kernel upgrades on an existing system
unless you know exactly why and how.
Why? Because kernels as old as yours have vulnerabilities and resource
utilization issues, idiot.

How? You'll never get there, since you cannot even do apt correctly.
You'll never grasp git.
Post by Jan Panteltje
This now runs Slackware (no idea what version, old version),
and does all I need.
You are too stupid to know what you need.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I compiled that kernel and many things broke.
And you never took the time to back up first, nor figure out what YOU
fucked up. I'll bet YOU made stupid configuration choices, instead of
using the currently running, working configuration.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I know more fun things to do,
Take your hand out of your pants, child.
Post by Jan Panteltje
just rewrote and improved some old program
I wrote, added features.
Do you even know what the word "features" means? I doubt it with all
the shit you spew about never updating or failing miserably when you try
to.
Post by Jan Panteltje
BUT if I buy a new PC (unlikely like this, will go for a Pipo perhaps) I
will do the fight rewriting all my stuff to get it working .
Bwuahahahahaha! Says the idiot who cannot even perform apt-get update,
much less upgrade, and puts spaces between his writings and his
punctuation.
Post by Jan Panteltje
After doing that 4 or 10 times it is _NOT_ what I am interested in
(since running Linux 1998).
Again, OS is part of the hardware, it is an INTERFACE between the
hardware and the application programs, it should NOT change all the
time,
No.. It should ALWAYS change AS FOLKS AND HARDWARE IMPROVES, IDIOT. YOU
ARE NOT ONE OF THOSE "FOLKS".
Post by Jan Panteltje
and in should not be more than that,
You are a stupid opinionated worm as well. More like a crybaby because
you cannot do it.
Post by Jan Panteltje
BUT sales are sales, new hardware needs to be sold... the software
manufacturers are in bed with the hardware manufacturers.
Linux is open last time I checked, dumbfuck.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Every thing needs a GUI, preferable with touch screen.
You need more than 2 firing neurons between your ears, but we are not
seeing that either.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I know, I spend 6 hours coding to make a GUI for some program that I can
do with 1 line of code in bash and a few entries in crontab.
You're an idiot. So stupid disparities like that are the rule.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Soon people will no longer be able to write, only to point at things,
Didn't happen in "Bicentennial Man", and they all had robots for
hundreds of years.
Post by Jan Panteltje
like in the supermarket, endlessly walk along shelves looking for what
you want, getting what you do not want as a bonus, while in the old
store you could ask the shopkeeper and he would give it to you.
Now you are fucking mumbling.
Post by Jan Panteltje
No command line is a disaster, so I run 8 rxvts on this box in 9 virtual
screens with one virtual screen with also a web browser,
and one with a few pictures you can click on if you forgot the program name.
Never heard of command line history, eh? So your shit machines do not
even have that simple upgrade. how quaint it is to hear an idiot like you
telling us "how things are".
Post by Jan Panteltje
Thank you for your attention.
I almost laugh at you harder than I laugh at Donald Trump and his inane
stupidity.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I did some biking this morning, just a 3 city tour, to stay in
condition,
Sure. Peddling along. You likely never pushed yourself to even break a
sweat. Some condition.
Post by Jan Panteltje
there was a bit of wind too, so the extra energy now goes into finger
exercises hitting these keys,
You really are a putz if you think we need your daily diary entry in
this group.
Post by Jan Panteltje
pay no attention to it, it may be dangerous to read these ideas.
They were not ideas. They were the mumbling of an inane loser who
thinks he's an uber technogeek.
Post by Jan Panteltje
It may lead to the demise of the US economy and collapse of civilization as we know it.
You're truly an abject idiot.
Post by Jan Panteltje
If you upgrade kernel of course, eh I mean upgrade to win10.
How would a total retard like you even have a clue?
Post by Jan Panteltje
Oh wtf,
now take for example my old tube color TV, it booted faster (if booted
is a usable word) than my 3D HD LCD.
No shit, Dip Tracy. "IF booted is right"? Can you really be that
stupid?
Post by Jan Panteltje
And the colors were better,
So you use shit russian LCD displays too? Oh... that's right... they
are so behind they do not have a display maker and never did and likely
never will.
Post by Jan Panteltje
angle you could view it was better, and even
used less power.
Yep. Your LCD is almost as old as your kernel. Modern displays are far
better, child.
Post by Jan Panteltje
And in the same way US now uses a Russian taxi to just a few hundred miles up, the ISS,
while in the past they routinely could do a moon return.
You are a true idiot. NONE of the Moon trips were "routine", you stupid
fuck. Note that were that true, other countries would have followed up
with their own Moon excursion missions.
Post by Jan Panteltje
So tech NO... logic is moving backwards.
Yours certainly has and still is, dipshit.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Transistors ? No.
FinFET Look it up, punk. Plenty of new advancement you are too stupid
to keep up on.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Back to the Flintstones and carve in stone, start all over again.
Are you related to Kaczynski?
Post by Jan Panteltje
that will happen anyways once the nukes rain.
"anyways"? Did you ever get ANY education, worm?
Post by Jan Panteltje
And then what do you have, all EMPed semiconductors.
Not as likely as you think child. Either scenario. The bombs or the EMP
result. You really are stupid.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Maybe better stop here, but be careful upgrading that box.
Grow the fuck up. Go see a psychologist too.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Did you see how many lines of text I wrote in how short a time? (Never
mind how long it took you to read though).
The inane ramblings of someone who is so stupid, yet thinks himself so
smart. I have not seen such stupid since our presidential election races
started.
Post by Jan Panteltje
See, no need for faster, just cheaper and better will do,
You're an idiot.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I did not have much to say as you probably noticed.
Most ignored you and some even added you to their ignore list.
Post by Jan Panteltje
But the essence of it is very true.
Bullshit. Total bullshit is what practically all of it was.
mixed nuts
2016-02-03 19:16:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
My local computer dealer warned me to avoid Windows 10 unless the
manufacturer can certify compatibility. He's been making a lot of money
unwinding Win 10 "upgrades". HP support was kind enough to inform me
that my machine (3 years old) has not been tested and may have issues
with "certain device drivers".

HP has since sent me several discount offers for a new 'Win 10' computer.
--
Grizzly H.
David Eather
2016-02-03 19:36:39 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 04:45:24 +1000, Winfield Hill
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7.
And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
Windows 10 will only be more secure because it is built on the code base
of every other version of windows (OK they are trying to pull out lot of
bugs, but they will have introduced just as many with their new - read
untested - 'features')

As for the rest. Older hardware will not be issued new drivers - what you
have may or may not work with win 10.

Windows 10 spies on you and sends information to microsoft, who then send
it to others. If anyone uses cortina it is even much much worse.

Windows 10 uses more resources - the performance of you PC's *will* drop.

Windows 'Edge' is just as big a disaster as Internet explorer - new
cosmetics is all important when the reputation of your product sucks.

Microsoft isn't giving away win 10 out of the goodness of their cold, dead
heart. It seeks to dominate a new market and then with the same old
'embrace, extend, extinguish' policies it has always had, introduce new
and/or incompatible and/or every changing versions of 'standards' so only
microsoft products work 'properly'. Can anyone say Netscape or Kerberos?

Plus, you will be at the cutting edge - which always costs more and takes
more effort to stay there (you get to be the bunny who fixes problems for
the first time)

Have a look at how well the compatibility modes works in windows 7. Way
less than half of software that won't run on 7 can be made run with
compatibility modes. Do you have any reason to think Win 10 will be
better? And VM emulators generally suck for serious use. Microsoft will
blow off any request for help by telling you your software is incompatible
and needs to be replaced - that will be there default position.

and for all this you get zero new features you need for your business

My advice, Wait a very long time
Clifford Heath
2016-02-03 23:21:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Eather
Windows 10 will only be more secure because it is built on the code base
I'm not sure you said what you meant to there, but I understood.
Post by David Eather
(OK they are trying to pull out lot
of bugs, but they will have introduced just as many with their new -
read untested - 'features')
I don't believe that's true. Their development practices are generally
at the leading end of world standards now, and in some cases are even
leading. Any unfortunate "features" are almost certainly both deliberate
and well-tested.
Post by David Eather
introduce new
and/or incompatible and/or every changing versions of 'standards' so
only microsoft products work 'properly'. Can anyone say Netscape or
Kerberos?
This is unfair wrt Kerberos. The extensions Microsoft added to AP and
the ticket structure were desperately needed enhancements that fix major
weaknesses in the original design. It's a shame they didn't "go through
the front door" but it's likely that would have delayed deployment for a
decade or more. They didn't get the implementation perfect (we made
quite a bit of money because I invented a solution to one of their
larger gaffes) but the idea of including a list of group memberships
into tickets is strong, and the use of SIDs (despite being derived from
the NT security model) is also quite cross-platform suitable.

Clifford Heath.
David Eather
2016-02-04 03:06:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clifford Heath
Post by David Eather
Windows 10 will only be more secure because it is built on the code base
I'm not sure you said what you meant to there, but I understood.
Post by David Eather
(OK they are trying to pull out lot
of bugs, but they will have introduced just as many with their new -
read untested - 'features')
I don't believe that's true. Their development practices are generally
at the leading end of world standards now, and in some cases are even
leading. Any unfortunate "features" are almost certainly both deliberate
and well-tested.
No, sadly it is true. The best estimate by security conscious programmers
is that 1 security problem will slip through for every 1000 lines of code.
Microsoft has already proved the unreliability of win10 with it's monthly
security updates.
Post by Clifford Heath
Post by David Eather
introduce new
and/or incompatible and/or every changing versions of 'standards' so
only microsoft products work 'properly'. Can anyone say Netscape or
Kerberos?
This is unfair wrt Kerberos. The extensions Microsoft added to AP and
the ticket structure were desperately needed enhancements that fix major
weaknesses in the original design. It's a shame they didn't "go through
the front door" but it's likely that would have delayed deployment for a
decade or more. They didn't get the implementation perfect (we made
quite a bit of money because I invented a solution to one of their
larger gaffes) but the idea of including a list of group memberships
into tickets is strong, and the use of SIDs (despite being derived from
the NT security model) is also quite cross-platform suitable.
Clifford Heath.
In other words, microsoft made something else that broke existing
implementations of Kerberos, but called it 'Kerberos' to increase it's
market share - I believe a court in the US made that determination. If
microsoft wanted to do good then they already knew they had to give it a
new name - but they didn't
Clifford Heath
2016-02-04 04:45:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Eather
Post by Clifford Heath
I don't believe that's true. Their development practices are generally
at the leading end of world standards now, and in some cases are even
leading. Any unfortunate "features" are almost certainly both
deliberate and well-tested.
No, sadly it is true. The best estimate by security conscious
programmers is that 1 security problem will slip through for every 1000
lines of code.
That's about 100x better than their historical rates then :).

But you quote "security conscious programmers". What do you know
of Microsoft's actual practices?

Are you aware that almost every new API(*) is specified as an object
model, and both the documentation (multi-lingual!) and code is
*generated* from that model before "the programmer" gets to work with it?

So how do you count the lines of code that are susceptible to error? In
the generator? In its templates? In the object model? or in the
generated code?

Like I said, modern development practices are bringing radical changes,
not just incremental ones.

(*) Certainly every API that is designed to work with the PowerShell,
which is essentially a functional programming language - not a
procedural one.
Post by David Eather
In other words, microsoft made something else that broke existing
implementations of Kerberos, but called it 'Kerberos' to increase it's
market share - I believe a court in the US made that determination. If
microsoft wanted to do good then they already knew they had to give it a
new name - but they didn't
You're disputing their business behavior here. I'm not, that was wrong.

Technically, what they did was necessary and good. The hubris of their
business managers caused them to mismanage the business aspect, is all.

Clifford Heath.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-03 23:48:42 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 05:36:39 +1000, David Eather wrote:

snip
Post by David Eather
Windows 10 will only be more secure because it is built on the code base
of every other version of windows (OK they are trying to pull out lot
of bugs, but they will have introduced just as many with their new -
read untested - 'features')
As for the rest. Older hardware will not be issued new drivers - what
you have may or may not work with win 10.
Windows 10 spies on you and sends information to microsoft, who then
send it to others. If anyone uses cortina it is even much much worse.
Windows 10 uses more resources - the performance of you PC's *will* drop.
Windows 'Edge' is just as big a disaster as Internet explorer - new
cosmetics is all important when the reputation of your product sucks.
Microsoft isn't giving away win 10 out of the goodness of their cold,
dead heart. It seeks to dominate a new market and then with the same old
'embrace, extend, extinguish' policies it has always had, introduce new
and/or incompatible and/or every changing versions of 'standards' so
only microsoft products work 'properly'. Can anyone say Netscape or
Kerberos?
Plus, you will be at the cutting edge - which always costs more and
takes more effort to stay there (you get to be the bunny who fixes
problems for the first time)
Have a look at how well the compatibility modes works in windows 7. Way
less than half of software that won't run on 7 can be made run with
compatibility modes. Do you have any reason to think Win 10 will be
better? And VM emulators generally suck for serious use. Microsoft will
blow off any request for help by telling you your software is
incompatible and needs to be replaced - that will be there default
position.
and for all this you get zero new features you need for your business
My advice, Wait a very long time
My guess about you and this is as opposed to first hand knowledge it is
more like retarded Donald Trump like gossip sludge.
M Philbrook
2016-02-04 03:45:36 UTC
Permalink
In article <n8u3kq$4ne$***@gioia.aioe.org>, ***@DecadentLinuxUser.org
says...
Post by DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
Post by David Eather
incompatible and needs to be replaced - that will be there default
position.
and for all this you get zero new features you need for your business
My advice, Wait a very long time
My guess about you and this is as opposed to first hand knowledge it is
more like retarded Donald Trump like gossip sludge.
Oh the days are getting closer. I hope you gag on your voment
if Trump wins! Actually, he'll be good for those of your kind, clean
up the system draining losers.

Jamie
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-04 03:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by M Philbrook
Oh the days are getting closer.
You're an idiot..

I hope you gag on your voment if Trump
Post by M Philbrook
wins!
There's another proof that you're an abject idiot, right there. He will
not win and the term is vomit, you retarded illiterate fuck.
Post by M Philbrook
Actually, he'll be good for those of your kind,
You are not qualified to assess what "kind" anyone is.. You are but a
circus flea.
Post by M Philbrook
clean up the
system draining losers.
You seem to think I am on a government tit. You have pulled this
retarded shit before. You couldn't be more wrong, but we all already knew
that fact. The only system I would find it a joy to drain away is that of
your life essence.
Jim Thompson
2016-02-04 04:45:57 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 22:45:36 -0500, M Philbrook
Post by M Philbrook
says...
Post by DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
Post by David Eather
incompatible and needs to be replaced - that will be there default
position.
and for all this you get zero new features you need for your business
My advice, Wait a very long time
My guess about you and this is as opposed to first hand knowledge it is
more like retarded Donald Trump like gossip sludge.
Oh the days are getting closer. I hope you gag on your voment
if Trump wins! Actually, he'll be good for those of your kind, clean
up the system draining losers.
Jamie
You are the jerk of all jerks >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-04 08:01:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
You are the jerk of all jerks >:-}
...Jim Thompson
Such carefully worded inane comical putzdom!
Martin Riddle
2016-02-03 19:39:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I have VS2010 on a WIN7 machine and the upgrade choked.

It would be better to start from scratch. Clean install of WIN7 and
upgrade to get the license. Then Wipe the win7->win10 upgrade and do a
clean install of WIN10.

But I'm for the new hardware/Win10 combo.


Cheers
Jim Thompson
2016-02-03 20:49:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
My understanding is that Windows 10 is a sneaky attempt to go to
subscription-based pricing... that is, an ANNUAL FEE :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Martin Riddle
2016-02-03 21:15:17 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:49:04 -0700, Jim Thompson
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
My understanding is that Windows 10 is a sneaky attempt to go to
subscription-based pricing... that is, an ANNUAL FEE :-(
...Jim Thompson
Just like an Anti-Virus. No protection if you don't pay!

Cheers
asdf
2016-02-03 21:22:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
My understanding is that Windows 10 is a sneaky attempt to go to
subscription-based pricing... that is, an ANNUAL FEE :-(
Plus a shitload of spyware.
boB
2016-02-03 21:56:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by asdf
Post by Jim Thompson
My understanding is that Windows 10 is a sneaky attempt to go to
subscription-based pricing... that is, an ANNUAL FEE :-(
Plus a shitload of spyware.
I understand (but don't know for 100% sure) that the free upgrade to
windows 10 is for the llife of windows 10 and no subscription will be
needed... That is, IF you upgrade now. (again, not certain about
that)

What I DO know is that I can NOT just upgrade to 10 from 7 because I
(and others at my company) use an IAR ARM (EWARM) embedded
compuler/IDE and what we found was that updating from 7 to 8.0/8.1,
our JTAG drivers did not work anymore. This would make us have to
pay around $10,000+ to update our IAR sytems to get the newer
ones so that we could debiug our projects. I ASSume that windows 10
will have the same problems.

Other than that, I still don't know what else is not compatible with 8
or 10 ? What I tend to do is to have multiple partitions or multiple
laptops with different OS's so that I can use what I need. (including
a MacBook) I DO have my wife's old windows 8.1 machine (she passed way
last June) and it seems to work OK with general software and they are
HOUNDING me to updgrade to windows 10 and I keep refusing to the
point of renaming the C:/windows/system32/GWX directory and microsoft
eventually keeps fixing it again.

I understand and have seen problems with windows 10 but I have also
seen applications run faster on 10. Like, maybe even LTspice.

boB
Jim Thompson
2016-02-03 22:14:21 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:56:55 -0800, boB
Post by boB
Post by asdf
Post by Jim Thompson
My understanding is that Windows 10 is a sneaky attempt to go to
subscription-based pricing... that is, an ANNUAL FEE :-(
Plus a shitload of spyware.
I understand (but don't know for 100% sure) that the free upgrade to
windows 10 is for the llife of windows 10 and no subscription will be
needed... That is, IF you upgrade now. (again, not certain about
that)
What I DO know is that I can NOT just upgrade to 10 from 7 because I
(and others at my company) use an IAR ARM (EWARM) embedded
compuler/IDE and what we found was that updating from 7 to 8.0/8.1,
our JTAG drivers did not work anymore. This would make us have to
pay around $10,000+ to update our IAR sytems to get the newer
ones so that we could debiug our projects. I ASSume that windows 10
will have the same problems.
Other than that, I still don't know what else is not compatible with 8
or 10 ? What I tend to do is to have multiple partitions or multiple
laptops with different OS's so that I can use what I need. (including
a MacBook) I DO have my wife's old windows 8.1 machine (she passed way
last June) and it seems to work OK with general software and they are
HOUNDING me to updgrade to windows 10 and I keep refusing to the
point of renaming the C:/windows/system32/GWX directory and microsoft
eventually keeps fixing it again.
I understand and have seen problems with windows 10 but I have also
seen applications run faster on 10. Like, maybe even LTspice.
boB
I'm near EOL myself, so I don't plan to EVER "upgrade" to Windows 10
;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Jasen Betts
2016-02-06 02:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by boB
Post by asdf
Post by Jim Thompson
My understanding is that Windows 10 is a sneaky attempt to go to
subscription-based pricing... that is, an ANNUAL FEE :-(
Plus a shitload of spyware.
I understand (but don't know for 100% sure) that the free upgrade to
windows 10 is for the llife of windows 10 and no subscription will be
needed... That is, IF you upgrade now. (again, not certain about
that)
And when win10 is EOL what then? maybe they turn it off and try to
sell you a win11 subscription
--
\_(ツ)_
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-03 23:51:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by asdf
Post by Jim Thompson
My understanding is that Windows 10 is a sneaky attempt to go to
subscription-based pricing... that is, an ANNUAL FEE :-(
Plus a shitload of spyware.
The worst app out there and NOT MS or OS, is that fucking winzip system
utilities app.

They sell it to you then inject problems onto your machine then play
beggies or thieves for another half grand out of your wallet all waiting
to get the unsuspecting victims. There are huge loads of stuff on google
about how bad they are.

Their assets should be seized and they should be charged criminally in
my view.
Klaus Kragelund
2016-02-03 21:46:46 UTC
Permalink
I upgraded. It bricked my machine and the revert back to Windows 7 option did not work

Took me countless hours to get up and running again

It's really annoying, you know the system downloading the windows 10 upgrade and constantly suggesting to install it

My advice, wait until it's mature

Cheers

Klaus
Winfield Hill
2016-02-03 22:34:52 UTC
Permalink
Klaus Kragelund wrote...
Post by Klaus Kragelund
I upgraded. It bricked my machine and the revert
back to Windows 7 option did not work
Took me countless hours to get up and running again
It's really annoying, you know the system downloading
the windows 10 upgrade and constantly suggesting to
install it
My advice, wait until it's mature
Thanks very much, Klaus, I wanted to hear from
someone who actually tried it. My previous
upgrades, XP-to-Win7, were builds from scratch.
--
Thanks,
- Win
John Larkin
2016-02-03 22:59:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
Klaus Kragelund wrote...
Post by Klaus Kragelund
I upgraded. It bricked my machine and the revert
back to Windows 7 option did not work
Took me countless hours to get up and running again
It's really annoying, you know the system downloading
the windows 10 upgrade and constantly suggesting to
install it
My advice, wait until it's mature
Thanks very much, Klaus, I wanted to hear from
someone who actually tried it. My previous
upgrades, XP-to-Win7, were builds from scratch.
I just transitioned to new PCs, HP/XP to Dell/Win7. Some old apps
didn't work. Everything had to be reinstalled. It took a while. I hope
that will last, say, 5 years.

The new ones do run Spice about 4x as fast.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Winfield Hill
2016-02-04 02:38:09 UTC
Permalink
John Larkin wrote...
Post by John Larkin
Post by Winfield Hill
Klaus Kragelund wrote...
Post by Klaus Kragelund
I upgraded. It bricked my machine and the revert
back to Windows 7 option did not work
Took me countless hours to get up and running again
It's really annoying, you know the system downloading
the windows 10 upgrade and constantly suggesting to
install it
My advice, wait until it's mature
Thanks very much, Klaus, I wanted to hear from
someone who actually tried it. My previous
upgrades, XP-to-Win7, were builds from scratch.
I just transitioned to new PCs, HP/XP to Dell/Win7.
Some old apps didn't work. Everything had to be
reinstalled. It took a while. I hope that will
last, say, 5 years.
The new ones do run Spice about 4x as fast.
I upgraded from XP to Win7 way back during the
beta program - it looked right to try on new
systems. I liked it so much I transitioned
immediately; lots of building work. (But my
co-author Paul stayed with XP until recently.)

I don't see benefits from Win10, only trouble.

Last winter I upgraded to Asus / Intel X99 w/
2011-pin socket (scary, but works well), Core
i7-5960X CPU and 16G of DDR4 RAM, that's fast.
Not that expensive, about $1k for parts. Why
can't Microsoft leave me alone for a few years.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Jeff Liebermann
2016-02-04 07:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
I upgraded from XP to Win7 way back during the
beta program
That would be about Oct 2009.
Post by Winfield Hill
I don't see benefits from Win10, only trouble.
If Microsoft had done it right, I would be out of business. The
obvious benefit to Windoze 10 is to Microsoft, not the user.
Post by Winfield Hill
Why
can't Microsoft leave me alone for a few years.
Because you're not paying MS any money for the privilege of using
their OS. Presumably, you paid for Win 7 back in 2009 and that's the
last time MS saw any money from you. I'm even worse. XP was released
in about 2001 with only a one time payment to MS 15 years ago. Today,
the new regime wants you to pay MS on a regular basis. Software as a
service, software rental, customer-vendor relationship, etc. Call it
what you want, you're going to be paying more often and probably more
dollars.

To be fair, MS has not announced such a plan. Questions about what
will happen after the 1 year free upgrade period are met with silence
or professed ignorance. What will really happen is at best a guess.
In my never humble opinion, the only reason that MS is so anxious to
upgrade everyone as quickly as possible is that they plan to monetize
it, which will instantly stop all voluntary upgrades. They have the
Win 10 users trapped, but not those using Win 7 and 8.1. Hopefully,
that won't happen, but I think it best to plan as if it might.
--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Martin Brown
2016-02-04 10:22:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
John Larkin wrote...
Post by John Larkin
Post by Winfield Hill
Klaus Kragelund wrote...
Post by Klaus Kragelund
I upgraded. It bricked my machine and the revert
back to Windows 7 option did not work
If it happens to fail that sadly seems to be the case :(

You probably could uninstall if the installation had succeeded but if
things go wrong then your options are limited to deciding how much of
your hair to tear out and praying that your backup image is sound.

Unwise to upgrade the OS in situ without a watertight image of the disk
being upgraded and also unwise if you have any unusual software.
Post by Winfield Hill
Post by John Larkin
Post by Winfield Hill
Post by Klaus Kragelund
Took me countless hours to get up and running again
It's really annoying, you know the system downloading
the windows 10 upgrade and constantly suggesting to
install it
My advice, wait until it's mature
Thanks very much, Klaus, I wanted to hear from
someone who actually tried it. My previous
upgrades, XP-to-Win7, were builds from scratch.
I just transitioned to new PCs, HP/XP to Dell/Win7.
Some old apps didn't work. Everything had to be
reinstalled. It took a while. I hope that will
last, say, 5 years.
The new ones do run Spice about 4x as fast.
I upgraded from XP to Win7 way back during the
beta program - it looked right to try on new
systems. I liked it so much I transitioned
immediately; lots of building work. (But my
co-author Paul stayed with XP until recently.)
I don't see benefits from Win10, only trouble.
Then just ignore the nagware and/or disable it by unpicking the dodgy
updates and also the pre-emptive Win10 downloader.

Win7 is fine no matter what the FUD marketing liars may say.

A lot of very expensive big scientific instruments are still running on
XP since none of the makers could be bothered rewriting the drivers.
Such kit is very heavily firewalled from the outside world and corporate
network because it is horribly exposed to vulnerabilities.
Post by Winfield Hill
Last winter I upgraded to Asus / Intel X99 w/
2011-pin socket (scary, but works well), Core
i7-5960X CPU and 16G of DDR4 RAM, that's fast.
Not that expensive, about $1k for parts. Why
can't Microsoft leave me alone for a few years.
Good move. I bought my machine just before Win7 was slated to no longer
be offered and ignored the free upgrade to Win8. Having used Win8 I am
glad that I did - it was never any good from the outset.

Win10 appears to be OK but I would never contemplate upgrading an OS in
place on a machine containing data and software that I was fond of. Win7
works plenty well enough and is robust. Win10 is still in flux.

I'd want two verified and validated backups on different media before I
would even contemplate letting the Mickeysoft installer loose on my box.

I am about to do exactly this Win7-10 upgrade on a sacrificial machine
so will post how I get on. Actually to test some other free MS software
that MS has cunningly altered so that it will only install on Win10.

If they block using original license codes to reinstall Win7 in the UK
there will be prosecutions against them under the computer misuse act.

It feels a lot like blackmail to me.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Martin Brown
2016-02-04 18:20:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Brown
I am about to do exactly this Win7-10 upgrade on a sacrificial machine
so will post how I get on. Actually to test some other free MS software
that MS has cunningly altered so that it will only install on Win10.
Following up my own post is bad form but here are the results.
I was fortunately doing other things while it chundered away.

"This will take a few minutes" is somewhat of an understatement.

1pm Started download
2pm Build media onto USB (in case it is any good)
3.30pm Ready to install - took default option to load updates now
4.30pm Updates failed & it locked up completely so I aborted
6.00pm Updater finished tidying up (it very nearly got force closed)

Now trying it without any updates in the hope that this time it might
actually get a bit further this time. <FX>crosses fingers</FX>

"This will take a few minutes" - please wait ....

That was 20 minutes ago. No other signs of life. Ho hum :(

I am hoping it will run overnight now. Confirms my suspicion that the
Win10 in place upgrade procedure isn't particularly reliable.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Jan Panteltje
2016-02-04 18:27:47 UTC
Permalink
On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Feb 2016 18:20:20 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Martin Brown
I am about to do exactly this Win7-10 upgrade on a sacrificial machine
so will post how I get on. Actually to test some other free MS software
that MS has cunningly altered so that it will only install on Win10.
Following up my own post is bad form but here are the results.
I was fortunately doing other things while it chundered away.
"This will take a few minutes" is somewhat of an understatement.
1pm Started download
2pm Build media onto USB (in case it is any good)
3.30pm Ready to install - took default option to load updates now
4.30pm Updates failed & it locked up completely so I aborted
6.00pm Updater finished tidying up (it very nearly got force closed)
Now trying it without any updates in the hope that this time it might
actually get a bit further this time. <FX>crosses fingers</FX>
"This will take a few minutes" - please wait ....
That was 20 minutes ago. No other signs of life. Ho hum :(
I am hoping it will run overnight now. Confirms my suspicion that the
Win10 in place upgrade procedure isn't particularly reliable.
If I had a car like that I'd bring it to the scrap yard.
Just imagine how microsoft is responsible for so many man hours lost fiddling
with their crap, they should be court court marshalled and the money divided among their victims.
For crimes against humanity.

And it is bad for the environment too.
Billy The Gates, he dunnit.
mike
2016-02-04 21:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Martin Brown
I am about to do exactly this Win7-10 upgrade on a sacrificial machine
so will post how I get on. Actually to test some other free MS software
that MS has cunningly altered so that it will only install on Win10.
Following up my own post is bad form but here are the results.
I was fortunately doing other things while it chundered away.
"This will take a few minutes" is somewhat of an understatement.
1pm Started download
2pm Build media onto USB (in case it is any good)
3.30pm Ready to install - took default option to load updates now
4.30pm Updates failed & it locked up completely so I aborted
6.00pm Updater finished tidying up (it very nearly got force closed)
Now trying it without any updates in the hope that this time it might
actually get a bit further this time. <FX>crosses fingers</FX>
"This will take a few minutes" - please wait ....
That was 20 minutes ago. No other signs of life. Ho hum :(
I am hoping it will run overnight now. Confirms my suspicion that the
Win10 in place upgrade procedure isn't particularly reliable.
The purpose of the upgrade is to get the digital entitlement so you
can do a fresh install. I do as little as possible to get
"windows is activated" on the system properties screen, then
trash it and start fresh.

I had one system that refused to update because It didn't like my
display card. Removed the card and updated with the onboard video.
Put the display card back in and windows 10 found the proper driver
and worked fine...go figger. Had another that wouldn't update
because it lost network access in the process.
It decided that the lan it had been using was no longer acceptable.
Plugged in a USB wireless lan, installed the driver. Windows went
wherever windows goes
and found the driver for the lan it had disabled and worked fine.
Go figger again.

Windows is extremely complex. I'd not trust an upgrade. Reinstall
from scratch so you have a known baseline.
Martin Brown
2016-02-05 11:39:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike
Post by Martin Brown
Post by Martin Brown
I am about to do exactly this Win7-10 upgrade on a sacrificial machine
so will post how I get on. Actually to test some other free MS software
that MS has cunningly altered so that it will only install on Win10.
Following up my own post is bad form but here are the results.
I was fortunately doing other things while it chundered away.
"This will take a few minutes" is somewhat of an understatement.
1pm Started download
2pm Build media onto USB (in case it is any good)
3.30pm Ready to install - took default option to load updates now
4.30pm Updates failed & it locked up completely so I aborted
6.00pm Updater finished tidying up (it very nearly got force closed)
Now trying it without any updates in the hope that this time it might
actually get a bit further this time. <FX>crosses fingers</FX>
"This will take a few minutes" - please wait ....
That was 20 minutes ago. No other signs of life. Ho hum :(
I am hoping it will run overnight now. Confirms my suspicion that the
Win10 in place upgrade procedure isn't particularly reliable.
The purpose of the upgrade is to get the digital entitlement so you
can do a fresh install. I do as little as possible to get
"windows is activated" on the system properties screen, then
trash it and start fresh.
I had one system that refused to update because It didn't like my
display card. Removed the card and updated with the onboard video.
Hard to do with a laptop and it was the ancient video accelerator
support that broke the updates during installation step. Possible it
misidentified it or something since it all locked up good and solid.
Post by mike
Put the display card back in and windows 10 found the proper driver
and worked fine...go figger. Had another that wouldn't update
because it lost network access in the process.
I decided to download everything to a USB stick since my internet
connection is potentially unstable (indeed failed during the second
installation but was easily resurrected).
Post by mike
It decided that the lan it had been using was no longer acceptable.
Plugged in a USB wireless lan, installed the driver. Windows went
wherever windows goes
and found the driver for the lan it had disabled and worked fine.
Go figger again.
Had the same issues with it not being able to cope with the video driver
and initially had a default 800x600 screen stretched to 1280x720 but at
least it booted this time. Updates with a bit of manual intervention
managed to find the right drivers but didn't prompt me to reboot after
they had been installed. Which seems a bit odd considering how many
reboots it had done during the original installation.
Post by mike
Windows is extremely complex. I'd not trust an upgrade. Reinstall
from scratch so you have a known baseline.
I'm only doing it to test running some code through the latest free
version of their compiler. This was my testing on Win7 when it was a
brand new sacrificial laptop getting a new lease of life as a Win10 test
platform. I am a bit surprised that the upgrade worked at all. There are
several legacy chipsets that have limited support in it.
(I don't care about that so long as it runs the right OS version)

I would be even more leery of doing this to a PC I was fond of now!

But to be fair it did work (eventually) and the compiler would download.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Tom Del Rosso
2016-02-05 06:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Brown
Unwise to upgrade the OS in situ without a watertight image of the
disk being upgraded and also unwise if you have any unusual software.
Also I would do the upgrade on another drive and save the original
drive, just because there's a slight chance the image won't work.
Drives are cheap and you'll use it for something else later anyway.

--
Tom Del Rosso
2016-02-05 06:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Brown
A lot of very expensive big scientific instruments are still running
on XP since none of the makers could be bothered rewriting the
drivers. Such kit is very heavily firewalled from the outside world
and corporate network because it is horribly exposed to
vulnerabilities.
The embedded version of XP is still getting upgrades. There's a simple
way to fool your's into thinking it is the embedded version but I don't
know the links to it off-hand.

--
Chris
2016-02-03 23:56:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
Klaus Kragelund wrote...
Post by Klaus Kragelund
I upgraded. It bricked my machine and the revert
back to Windows 7 option did not work
Took me countless hours to get up and running again
It's really annoying, you know the system downloading
the windows 10 upgrade and constantly suggesting to
install it
My advice, wait until it's mature
Thanks very much, Klaus, I wanted to hear from
someone who actually tried it. My previous
upgrades, XP-to-Win7, were builds from scratch.
Thought I'd report some success amongst all the doom & gloom

Myself:

Work Laptop, VS2013 & 2015 installed (community versions)
Win8.1 -> Win10 on a ThinkPad T530 - No issues at all.

Home PC
Win 7 sp2 -> Win10 (Self built, ASUS MB, 2 x nVidia 660, 16M, SSD)
minor install issue: not enough space on the OEM or recovery partition
(i.e wherever the upgrade downloads to). After making room, no issues at
all.

Work Colleagues:

4 ppl with various hardware platforms, mostly Win7 - No Issues at all.
2 of the above upgraded Win7 home machines too, again No Issues.

FWIW
--
Cheers,
Chris.
Joerg
2016-02-04 17:44:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
Klaus Kragelund wrote...
Post by Klaus Kragelund
I upgraded. It bricked my machine and the revert
back to Windows 7 option did not work
Took me countless hours to get up and running again
It's really annoying, you know the system downloading
the windows 10 upgrade and constantly suggesting to
install it
My advice, wait until it's mature
I second that.
Post by Winfield Hill
Thanks very much, Klaus, I wanted to hear from
someone who actually tried it. My previous
upgrades, XP-to-Win7, were builds from scratch.
A month ago I tried a little tablet that only came with Windows 10.
Horrid! Sent it back. They first balked but had to take it back because
a driver didn't work that was clearly promised to work in the ads.

Long story short, I will not touch Windows 10 as long as I can avoid it.
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Clifford Heath
2016-02-03 23:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7.
There is only one safe way to run Windows: in virtualization, firewalled
so it can only see a secure Linux or OS/X host (where you do your web
browsing and net access). Virtualisation tools are so advanced that you
really can't tell you're running virtual; a single keypress flips
instantly between environments. They come with tools to virtualize an
existing physical machine, so you don't need to rebuild.

You can save "My Documents" outside the Windows environment, which
allows you to make savepoints and recover to them without any
accumulation of cruft.

I was principal (software) engineer for 17 years in a 140-person
Microsoft Gold-partner company producing deep systems software for
Windows, but that's how I choose to operate. Microsoft's development
practices are massively better than in the past, now up with the best in
the world, but their business practices are just as questionable as
ever. Rent an operating system? Go take a running jump...

Clifford Heath.
Chris Jones
2016-02-03 23:33:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clifford Heath
There is only one safe way to run Windows: in virtualization, firewalled
so it can only see a secure Linux or OS/X host (where you do your web
browsing and net access). Virtualisation tools are so advanced that you
really can't tell you're running virtual; a single keypress flips
instantly between environments. They come with tools to virtualize an
existing physical machine, so you don't need to rebuild
What virtualization software do you suggest?

Chris
Clifford Heath
2016-02-04 00:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Jones
Post by Clifford Heath
There is only one safe way to run Windows: in virtualization, firewalled
so it can only see a secure Linux or OS/X host (where you do your web
browsing and net access). Virtualisation tools are so advanced that you
really can't tell you're running virtual; a single keypress flips
instantly between environments. They come with tools to virtualize an
existing physical machine, so you don't need to rebuild
What virtualization software do you suggest?
After many years on Linux, I've been a Mac user since they went to
Intel. At first I used Parallels because they were first to market, but
the USB and networking software is not as flexible as VMWare Fusion, and
that bit me badly on a difficult project, so I ditched Parallels and
migrated all my VMs across to Fusion (seamless, another win for
virtualisation!).

VMWare have just sacked the Fusion team and are outsourcing maintenance
to China. It's possible they won't break it, but if they do, another
alternative will step forward. Maybe VirtualBox, despite the Oracle taint.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-03 23:54:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clifford Heath
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7.
There is only one safe way to run Windows: in virtualization, firewalled
so it can only see a secure Linux or OS/X host (where you do your web
browsing and net access). Virtualisation tools are so advanced that you
really can't tell you're running virtual; a single keypress flips
instantly between environments. They come with tools to virtualize an
existing physical machine, so you don't need to rebuild.
Good advice. Machines are super fast now, and the extra layer should be
negligible speed hit but a huge security plus.
Post by Clifford Heath
You can save "My Documents" outside the Windows environment, which
allows you to make savepoints and recover to them without any
accumulation of cruft.
I was principal (software) engineer for 17 years in a 140-person
Microsoft Gold-partner company producing deep systems software for
Windows, but that's how I choose to operate. Microsoft's development
practices are massively better than in the past, now up with the best in
the world, but their business practices are just as questionable as
ever. Rent an operating system? Go take a running jump...
Clifford Heath.
The only really good recommendation I have yet seen in the thread.
mike
2016-02-04 07:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clifford Heath
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7.
There is only one safe way to run Windows: in virtualization, firewalled
so it can only see a secure Linux or OS/X host (where you do your web
browsing and net access). Virtualisation tools are so advanced that you
really can't tell you're running virtual; a single keypress flips
instantly between environments. They come with tools to virtualize an
existing physical machine, so you don't need to rebuild.
I understand the lure of virtualizing software. Most of what I do
wants to talk to the hardware, sometimes in native form.
I've found virtualization lacking in those areas.
Post by Clifford Heath
You can save "My Documents" outside the Windows environment, which
allows you to make savepoints and recover to them without any
accumulation of cruft.
I was principal (software) engineer for 17 years in a 140-person
Microsoft Gold-partner company producing deep systems software for
Windows, but that's how I choose to operate. Microsoft's development
practices are massively better than in the past, now up with the best in
the world, but their business practices are just as questionable as
ever. Rent an operating system? Go take a running jump...
Clifford Heath.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-04 08:09:04 UTC
Permalink
I understand the lure of virtualizing software. Most of what I do wants
to talk to the hardware, sometimes in native form.
I've found virtualization lacking in those areas.
I doubt seriously that you are very good at performing any such type of
comprehensive investigation(s). I find you lacking.
artie
2016-02-03 23:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
Look for the GWX Control Panel -- it's about your best bet for keeping
Windows 10 from your Windows 7 or 8 machine. It's a one-stop shop for
disabling Win 10 upgrades.

Also turn off automatically downloading updates. That means you need to
be more vigilant about system updates, but hopefully reduces the
changes of you coming in one morning and finding either a fresh Win 10
installation on your machine, or more likely, a failed partial Win 10
installation.

One of my gripes with 10 is the inability to control the amount of
information it reports back to Microsoft.
Neon John
2016-02-04 02:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by artie
Look for the GWX Control Panel -- it's about your best bet for keeping
Windows 10 from your Windows 7 or 8 machine. It's a one-stop shop for
disabling Win 10 upgrades.
Here.

http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/
Post by artie
Also turn off automatically downloading updates. That means you need to
be more vigilant about system updates,
On my token Win7 machine (we're a Linux shop), I have updates set to
"let me review and approve each update." I check it about once a
week.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-03 23:43:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five
Windows 7 machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring /
instrument interface / simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and
drivers, much of it fairly old stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7
compatibility mode works well). I suspect many other engineers share my
situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7.
And Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free
Windows 10 upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm
wondering how many of you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
You will lose or will have to re-install some of those legacy apps. You
should perform a full backup of any given OS drive fisrt, and consider
buying a whole new SSD replacement in cases where performance gain is also
a desire. That way, you can use Linux to clone the drive and update that
drive and see if the results are desirable, and if not simply put the
original drive back in. They are cheap upgrades to any system.

If considering an SSD, I would also consider getting an mSATA drive and
conversion caddy, or even an M.2 drive and caddy as opposed to a tired old
2.5" form factor SSD as the mSATA and M.2 drives are astoundingly faster,
even with the downgrade of the conversion caddy. The conversion caddy is
so that you can plug either drive choice into the interface your current
system sports.
bitrex
2016-02-04 03:31:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five
Windows 7 machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring /
instrument interface / simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and
drivers, much of it fairly old stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7
compatibility mode works well). I suspect many other engineers share my
situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7.
And Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free
Windows 10 upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm
wondering how many of you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
...That way, you can use Linux...
Would have been a great response all by itself.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-04 03:48:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:31:29 -0500, bitrex wrote:
snip
Post by bitrex
...That way, you can use Linux...
Would have been a great response all by itself.
Your snip it and post a one liner is what made it retarded.
bitrex
2016-02-04 13:49:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
snip
Post by bitrex
...That way, you can use Linux...
Would have been a great response all by itself.
Your snip it and post a one liner is what made it retarded.
;(

Has anyone ever told you that you seem like what might be termed a
"high-conflict" person?
Syd Rumpo
2016-02-03 23:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
If it ain't broke...

A small data point. I had an old Asus netbook which used to run Windows
7 tolerably well, but which became far too slow, probably because of
updates. Various Linux versions (Linuces?) weren't much better,
probably because the drivers weren't very good. So I tried Windows 10.
Stupid waste of time, no better. To save myself from wasting any more
time (and I knew I would), I threw it away.

Cheers
--
Syd
Jan Panteltje
2016-02-04 08:53:45 UTC
Permalink
On a sunny day (Wed, 3 Feb 2016 23:46:56 +0000) it happened Syd Rumpo
Post by Syd Rumpo
If it ain't broke...
A small data point. I had an old Asus netbook which used to run Windows
7 tolerably well, but which became far too slow, probably because of
updates. Various Linux versions (Linuces?) weren't much better,
probably because the drivers weren't very good. So I tried Windows 10.
Stupid waste of time, no better. To save myself from wasting any more
time (and I knew I would), I threw it away.
Pity.
I still have one of the first Asus eeePCs, it came with Linux.
It works with 3G Huawei modem and flies.
All solid state, no harddisk.
But.. the old version of Netscape on some sites gets me 'your browser is no longer supported'.
Need to install a new browser some day?
Even compiled a new kernel on it and it can run as a server.
Will be museum piece one day, already worth more than I bought it for (showroom model).

Even ran Eagle on it:
Loading Image...

Very useful:
Loading Image...
Jan Panteltje
2016-02-04 09:40:07 UTC
Permalink
On a sunny day (Thu, 04 Feb 2016 08:53:45 GMT) it happened Jan Panteltje
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Wed, 3 Feb 2016 23:46:56 +0000) it happened Syd Rumpo
Post by Syd Rumpo
If it ain't broke...
A small data point. I had an old Asus netbook which used to run Windows
7 tolerably well, but which became far too slow, probably because of
updates. Various Linux versions (Linuces?) weren't much better,
probably because the drivers weren't very good. So I tried Windows 10.
Stupid waste of time, no better. To save myself from wasting any more
time (and I knew I would), I threw it away.
Pity.
I still have one of the first Asus eeePCs, it came with Linux.
It works with 3G Huawei modem and flies.
All solid state, no harddisk.
But.. the old version of Netscape on some sites gets me 'your browser is no longer supported'.
Need to install a new browser some day?
Even compiled a new kernel on it and it can run as a server.
Will be museum piece one day, already worth more than I bought it for (showroom model).
http://panteltje.com/pub/eagle_on_eeepc/snapshot8.png
BTW that is booted from a USB stick running grml Linux.
The 'boot from USB stick' seems to be the solution to everything,
I run Navigatrix that way too
http://navigatrix.net/
So the OS (Linux) and all the needed apps on a stick.
Who cares what the hardware came with?

Microsoft cannot hold a gun to your head to force you to buy or install stuff whenever they please,
They tried hard to f*ck up BIOS to do that, luckily that can be bypassed.

Mircosoft is on its return, now claims to make money with the 'cloud',
while every 10 year old or older knows that is the most unsafe place to put your data,
and while GB FLASH cards / sticks are ever cheaper.
Microsoft is dead.
Don Kuenz
2016-02-04 01:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
My experience with Windows 10 includes approximately eight laptops/PCs.
Windows 10 is easier to use than Windows 8. If a fat app works on 7 it
probably also works on 10. All of the problems experienced by me are
directly tied to Internet Explorer (IE) applications.

As others mentioned, Edge is the newest IE and it's sometimes impossible
to revert back to 7. Microsoft bundles a legacy version of IE11 with 10
to help you over the rough spots, if you happen to use IE applications.

One major irritation is that the local Administrator account is
"hidden." You can no longer add local users when logged in as the local
Administrator. Windows 10 fails to advise you of this. It doesn't
display a "you can't do that" message. Instead, it just sits there,
spins, and leads you to believe that something's broke. :)

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
JW
2016-02-05 13:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Kuenz
One major irritation is that the local Administrator account is
"hidden." You can no longer add local users when logged in as the local
Administrator. Windows 10 fails to advise you of this. It doesn't
display a "you can't do that" message. Instead, it just sits there,
spins, and leads you to believe that something's broke. :)
That's easy to fix. Make a .CMD file with the following, and run as
Administrator:

ECHO Enabling Administrator Account
NET USER Administrator /active:yes

ECHO Clearing the Administrator Password
NET USER Administrator ""
bitrex
2016-02-04 03:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
Have you read the nitty gritty of the Windows 10 EULA?

As JL would say: "Yikes."
Robert Baer
2016-02-04 05:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation& embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
Firstly, note the fact that There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.
Secondly, M$ is _promising_ to look at (and maybe steal) everything
available in a Win10 system.
Maybe you should remove the full front wall of your house and paint
the inside with pure gold.
Do not forget to add a big sign on the front lawn "Nothing here
belongs to me".
Jeff Liebermann
2016-02-04 07:17:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I maintain about 200 assorted machines for various customers. I
personally own 5 Win 10 machines, 2 Win 7 machines, and I don't know
how many XP machines. I've done some upgrades from Win 7/8.1 to Win
10 and am generally satisfied with the performance and reliability of
Win 10. There were are few glitches, but no meltdowns or disasters.
None of my customers running Win 10 are complaining very much. Mostly,
they're not accustomed to learning a new user interface every few
years. For those that do complain, I install Classic Shell to make
Win 10 look and feel more like Win 7:
<http://www.classicshell.net>

However, there were a few surprises:

1. MS Office 2003 Works fine on Win 7, but doesn't on Win 8.1 or 10.

2. I have little control over the update process. That's fairly
important when I give a presentation and the machine insists that this
would be the perfect time to download a very large update. At best, I
can delay the installation until later, but not the download.

3. I'm very suspicious as to why MS is so anxious to quickly upgrade
everyone to Windoze 10. My guess is that when the 1 year free upgrade
period ends in about April 2016, MS is going to monetize Win10. You
may find yourself supporting MS with regular financial contributions
or support, updates, and fixes.

4. MS give you 1 month to "test" Win 10. After that, it allegedly
not possible to roll back to Win 7. Worse, I am told that you cannot
use your previous Win 7 serial number to reinstall Win 7. I have
tested this and found it not to be true, but it might happen at any
time.

5. Older printers, web cameras, scanners, and devices that require
drivers, no longer work.

If you're going to upgrade, I suggest you first make an image backup
of your Win 7 system. I use Acronis True Image 2015 (about $50) which
is not very good, but is the best I've found so far for the purpose:
<http://www.acronis.com/en-us/personal/computer-backup/>
That's an image backup that gets everything, not a file by file backup
that requires a working OS to reinstall. I boot from a bootable CDROM
or flash drive with Acronis, and backup to a USB 2TB disk drive.
<Loading Image...>
I know have about 3 times as many since the photo was taken. Backup
speed is between 1GB/min to 6GB/min depending on hardware:

Or, if you're in the mood for a hardware upgrade, you might want to
clone your Win 7 hard disk drive to an SSD (solid state disk) and
upgrade to Win 10 on the SSD. There are a few tweaks that need to be
made. Figure on 3x to 5x faster for everything. If you don't like
it, just put the original Win 7 drive back into the machine.

Good luck.
--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff Liebermann
2016-02-04 07:58:47 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 23:17:34 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <***@cruzio.com>
wrote:
(...)
It's going to be a while until Win 7 goes away. The problem is that
most of the Win 7 desktops are in the corporate environment, which is
currently immune to Microsoft's heavy handed push to upgrade everyone
to Win 10.

Desktop Operating System Market Share
<https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0>
Windows 10 Market Share on Desktop
<https://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpaf=&qpcustom=Windows+10&qpcustomb=0>

Win 7 54.84%
Win 10 11.85%
Win XP 11.42%
Win 8.1 10.4%
--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
mike
2016-02-04 08:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
Rule number one: Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
Rule number two: Keep your options open.

I cloned all my hard drives.
Did the free win10 upgrade...nineteen of them at last count.
Put the old win7 drives back in.
If you want to experiment, overwrite
the Win10 update with a fresh install so you know
where you're starting.

I stick a win10 drive back in when I'm bored and install stuff.
It has gone way better than I expected. I was most concerned about
external hardware compatibility, but that too has gone well.
VB6 still compiles and runs. National GPIB drivers still talk
to instrumentation. Even very old stuff that talks to serial ports
and parallel ports seems to work.
Most of the software tools I wrote started on windows 98 and
still work on windows 10.
There are a few rough edges,
but I expect they'll get sanded sooner or later as they finish
the OS. I had a lot of display driver issues early on, mostly
because windows update insisted on replacing a working driver
with their own default, low resolution driver, but they
seem to be better now.

The deal breaker for me is the updates.
I need to reboot the system to change some non plug and play hardware.
Two hours later, the damn system is still installing updates.
By the time it finishes, I've already made lunch, gotten pissed
off about it and forgotten what I started out to do.
If your time is money, I'd not recommend windows 10...yet.

Sooner or later, you won't have an option. Something you NEED
won't work on windows 7. When that time comes, you'll be glad
you have the windows 10 digital entitlement and some experience
with your software when it wasn't time critical.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-04 08:35:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five
Windows 7 machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring /
instrument interface / simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and
drivers, much of it fairly old stuff that works well for me. (Windows
7 compatibility mode works well). I suspect many other engineers share
my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7.
And Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free
Windows 10 upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm
wondering how many of you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
Rule number one: Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
No. That's RETARDED ADAGE NUMBER 1.
Post by mike
Rule number two: Keep your options open.
Another totally retarded adage, especially if one embraces the first.
Post by mike
I cloned all my hard drives.
Did the free win10 upgrade...nineteen of them at last count.
Put the old win7 drives back in.
If you want to experiment, overwrite the Win10 update with a fresh
install so you know where you're starting.
So, you didn't even bother to read what he wrote about installed apps,
eh? You're an idiot.
Post by mike
I stick a win10 drive back in when I'm bored and install stuff.
When are you going to uninstall the stupid 'stuff' between your ears?
Post by mike
It has gone way better than I expected. I was most concerned about
external hardware compatibility, but that too has gone well.
VB6 still compiles and runs. National GPIB drivers still talk to
instrumentation. Even very old stuff that talks to serial ports and
parallel ports seems to work.
No shit, Dip Tracy.
Post by mike
Most of the software tools I wrote started on windows 98 and still work
on windows 10.
Likely as simple as you ever were.
Post by mike
There are a few rough edges,
but I expect they'll get sanded sooner or later as they finish the OS.
Wow. Waxing metaphorical. You really are an idiot.
Post by mike
I had a lot of display driver issues early on, mostly because windows
update insisted on replacing a working driver with their own default,
low resolution driver, but they seem to be better now.
Total bullshit.
Post by mike
The deal breaker for me is the updates.
I need to reboot the system to change some non plug and play hardware.
Two hours later, the damn system is still installing updates.
Waaahh! Couldn't possibly have spent the time watching one of thos
movies you only watch once, right?
Post by mike
By the time it finishes, I've already made lunch, gotten pissed off
about it and forgotten what I started out to do.
Ahh... even with only 'stuff' between your ears, you still can't
connect two neurons together the same way twice in the same day.
Post by mike
If your time is money, I'd not recommend windows 10...yet.
You're a real expert, mike... NOT!
Post by mike
Sooner or later, you won't have an option. Something you NEED won't
work on windows 7. When that time comes, you'll be glad you have the
windows 10 digital entitlement and some experience with your software
when it wasn't time critical.
Your logic is wrought full of the same 'stuff' that is between your ears.
IOW, totally retarded ineptitude!
Martin Brown
2016-02-04 08:46:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
What I suggest you do is buy a sacrificial Win10 machine that is small
highly portable and with a touch screen to try out Win10 first. I quite
like the ASUS T100 (no not made of intelligent molten metal). It has a
detachable keyboard so you can use it as a tablet and is compact.
Post by Winfield Hill
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
If everything works for you now and is stable leave well alone.
Win7 will have to be supported for (at least) another 4 years.

Like XP it has such a wide installation base that they will have to!

Mickeysoft marketing are using FUD and aggressive nagware to try and
force Win10 on a largely unwilling customer base to adopt Win10. The
latest utterances by their snake in the grass chief marketing man have
been subject to ridicule in the technical press:

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/windows-10-use-inches-up-as-microsoft-exec-disses-windows-7/#!

Basically the claim that 10 year old Win7 software with such a huge
installed base is unreliable is risible and they will have to support it
until 2020. Newer software always tends to have more bugs - especially
when it has been rushed out. Win8.x is dead in the water.

The object is to scare business users into upgrading now and/or offer
only two options "upgrade now" or "upgrade tonight" on their nagware
buttons. You may consider this bad practice - I certainly do!

Win10 looks serviceable to me but I would not contemplate upgrading the
OS on a working platform with important software on it without taking a
complete image backup first and being prepared to lose everything.

The main worry these days is cryptolocker style ransomware getting in
and locking down your machine(s). A series of backups that are on write
only media is about the only protection from that. A UK council is stuck
with a million pound ransom for their data after a breach:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/28/lincolnshire_council/

Basically always assume unexpected binary attachments are hostile!

Put in simplest terms: If it ain't broke don't fix it.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Spehro Pefhany
2016-02-04 18:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
Personally, I am not going to change from Windows 7 until it's
absolutely required- probably ~2020 or so.

I don't think anything will melt down, but I think it will be really,
really annoying and I can't imagine any benefit that would make it
worthwhile. I don't want touch screens, and I don't want to learn a
new interface. Keeping track of Win7, Mac, iOS and Linux (with still
some occasional XP) is enough.

If you're concerned about privacy, it looks like the telemetry stuff
in Win7 is still separable, but in later versions of Windows it's so
integrated that privacy is seriously compromised, and possibly that
reflects on security holes.


--sp
--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition: http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8
Jim Thompson
2016-02-04 21:00:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I wonder if there's any way to firewall any attempts by Micro$oft to
perform updates??

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Martin Brown
2016-02-04 21:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I wonder if there's any way to firewall any attempts by Micro$oft to
perform updates??
...Jim Thompson
Uninstall the nagware ones and then hide their update(s). You have to
set download an let me choose which updates to install and control it. A
few hacks in the registry with a flint axe and you are done although it
might be safer to download a tool that does it for you.

Info is online but be careful which sites you visit some are hostile:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/12/microsofts_get_windows_10_nagware_is_showing_signs_of_sentience/
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
mike
2016-02-04 21:51:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I wonder if there's any way to firewall any attempts by Micro$oft to
perform updates??
...Jim Thompson
That's been discussed at length.
It has been asserted that windows does not honor the hosts file.
In order to block it in the firewall, you have to know exactly
what to block. And they can change it at will...or have alternates
if one fails to get thru the firewall.
Since they own the system, they can circumvent a software firewall.
It's a lot like congress making laws. They hide the stuff you
don't want in stuff you do want.

There are applications that attempt to track microsoft evasion of
blocks.

Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
Jim Thompson
2016-02-04 22:19:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I wonder if there's any way to firewall any attempts by Micro$oft to
perform updates??
...Jim Thompson
That's been discussed at length.
It has been asserted that windows does not honor the hosts file.
In order to block it in the firewall, you have to know exactly
what to block. And they can change it at will...or have alternates
if one fails to get thru the firewall.
Since they own the system, they can circumvent a software firewall.
It's a lot like congress making laws. They hide the stuff you
don't want in stuff you do want.
There are applications that attempt to track microsoft evasion of
blocks.
Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
Yep, ASSimilated :-(

How about hardware firewalls?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Chris Jones
2016-02-04 23:27:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by mike
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I wonder if there's any way to firewall any attempts by Micro$oft to
perform updates??
...Jim Thompson
That's been discussed at length.
It has been asserted that windows does not honor the hosts file.
In order to block it in the firewall, you have to know exactly
what to block. And they can change it at will...or have alternates
if one fails to get thru the firewall.
Since they own the system, they can circumvent a software firewall.
It's a lot like congress making laws. They hide the stuff you
don't want in stuff you do want.
There are applications that attempt to track microsoft evasion of
blocks.
Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
Yep, ASSimilated :-(
How about hardware firewalls?
That ought to work (if you get the list of allowed sites right) but I'd
rather not have to install extra hardware. Another option that should
work is to run Windows in a VM, but give the VM very restricted access
to the internet.

If the Windows applications need internet access then you could make a
"whitelist" of sites that you want it to access and block everything
else (presumably the microsoft telemetry and/or update sites). In this
case I would be concerned that the Windows OS is not being updated but
has some access to the internet so that some malicious file might get in
that exploits a bug that I had prevented from being fixed through an update.

Perhaps an easier option would be to do all web browsing, e-mail etc. on
the host OS (linux etc.) outside the VM, and don't give any network
access at all to the VM that runs windows, except on special occasions
when e.g. you need to update LTSpice. You could have a drive that is
mounted on both the Windows and host OSs for transferring files. A nice
feature of keeping documents on a drive outside the VM is that you can
keep a known-good image of the VM, and have a zero-tolerance attitude to
any kind of misbehavoiur by Windows. If it steps out of line, it gets
overwritten by the working image.

This is the best that I can think of so far. To do this I need to either
migrate my existing Win7 install into a VM, or freshly install Win7 onto
a VM. I believe that both are allowed under the OEM Win7 licence
provided it eventually runs on the same hardware, though I suspect that
a phone call may be required to solve activation problems, and MS might
stop cooperating with these requests in order to push Win10. Otherwise
buying a new-old-stock retail copy of Win7 might be an option if one can
find a real one on ebay etc.

Chris
Joe Hey
2016-02-05 04:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Jones
Post by Jim Thompson
How about hardware firewalls?
That ought to work (if you get the list of allowed sites right) but I'd
rather not have to install extra hardware. Another option that should
work is to run Windows in a VM, but give the VM very restricted access
to the internet.
If you don't need a lot of fancy hardware connected to your PC, you could
try out that Qubes-OS. All internet traffic can be routed through a
firewall VM which is using a networking VM for the internet access.
Security by isolation. Currently Xen is the hypervisor and they allow you
to run windows VMs. For the firewall VM you will chose a linux VM of course.
Post by Chris Jones
If the Windows applications need internet access then you could make a
"whitelist" of sites that you want it to access and block everything
else (presumably the microsoft telemetry and/or update sites). In this
case I would be concerned that the Windows OS is not being updated but
has some access to the internet so that some malicious file might get in
that exploits a bug that I had prevented from being fixed through an update.
Perhaps an easier option would be to do all web browsing, e-mail etc. on
the host OS (linux etc.) outside the VM, and don't give any network
access at all to the VM that runs windows, except on special occasions
when e.g. you need to update LTSpice.
This is perfectly possible with Qubes-OS (.org), but then the web browsing,
e-mail can be done on again different VMs. Even the 'safe' (banking) and
'unsafe' (clicking all kinds of links that might pop up in emails etc.)
browsing can be divided over separate VMs, so that your banking browser
won't be hijacked when you click a 'dirty' link.
Post by Chris Jones
You could have a drive that is
mounted on both the Windows and host OSs for transferring files. A nice
feature of keeping documents on a drive outside the VM is that you can
keep a known-good image of the VM, and have a zero-tolerance attitude to
any kind of misbehavoiur by Windows. If it steps out of line, it gets
overwritten by the working image.
This is the best that I can think of so far. To do this I need to either
migrate my existing Win7 install into a VM, or freshly install Win7 onto
a VM. I believe that both are allowed under the OEM Win7 licence
provided it eventually runs on the same hardware, though I suspect that
a phone call may be required to solve activation problems, and MS might
stop cooperating with these requests in order to push Win10. Otherwise
buying a new-old-stock retail copy of Win7 might be an option if one can
find a real one on ebay etc.
You can install Win7 on 1 VM and linux on the others, including the host.

joe
Post by Chris Jones
Chris
mike
2016-02-04 23:27:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by mike
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I wonder if there's any way to firewall any attempts by Micro$oft to
perform updates??
...Jim Thompson
That's been discussed at length.
It has been asserted that windows does not honor the hosts file.
In order to block it in the firewall, you have to know exactly
what to block. And they can change it at will...or have alternates
if one fails to get thru the firewall.
Since they own the system, they can circumvent a software firewall.
It's a lot like congress making laws. They hide the stuff you
don't want in stuff you do want.
There are applications that attempt to track microsoft evasion of
blocks.
Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
Yep, ASSimilated :-(
How about hardware firewalls?
...Jim Thompson
I haven't used a hardware firewall in decades.
Still have the problem of what to block.
If you want to monitor everything, you could probably block
what address was used last time. All they have to do is keep
changing the web address to evade your blocks.
Or even easier, put it at the same address as something you
want and can't block.
I think the best you can do is use the tools provided by the
white-hat-hackers and hope you don't get owned by a black-hat-hacker
in disguise.
I'm no expert. Better to ask this question in a windows 10 group.
My active machines will stay windows 7.
My windows 10 machines don't have anything valuable or secret on them.
They have nothing to lose.

There's one thing that I did when I had metered internet to keep
virus scanners from downloading 200MB signature updates.
Normally, your lan setup has a setting that defines your default
gateway as your router. That's how you connect to the internet.
If you change the default gateway to a non-existent address,
any attempts to address the internet get dropped. Communication
between computers on your local network is unaffected.
That's obviously a problem for computers that need direct internet
access. I use only one computer to access the web.
If I need something on another computer, I can download it
and do file transfer locally.
There's an application called fastipchanger that makes it very easy
to switch that default gateway setting to access the web. But that
may not help if MS sneaks an update while you have internet access.
PITA, but can help in some
circumstances.

There's a setting that prevents win10 updates if you're on a metered
internet connection. But that only works for wireless connections.
Recently, I saw a registry hack that makes it work for wired connections.
Never tried it. MS could easily defeat that if they wanted.
I have all the spyware (that's in the settings tabs) defeated.
but MS updates keep turning some of them back on. They OWN us.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-05 01:10:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike
I haven't used a hardware firewall in decades.
Nobody ever said you was very bright.

You probably have and do not even know it.

You cable modem has one. Your wifi router has one.

Have either of those?
Joe Hey
2016-02-05 04:43:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike
That's obviously a problem for computers that need direct internet
access. I use only one computer to access the web.
If I need something on another computer, I can download it
and do file transfer locally.
I am now using Qubes-OS for some years and it's a wonderful OS with a
very consistent security philosophy.
And after the last security issue found in Xen it maybe is even safe.
... Until they find the next bug...

joe
Clifford Heath
2016-02-04 23:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by mike
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I wonder if there's any way to firewall any attempts by Micro$oft to
perform updates??
...Jim Thompson
That's been discussed at length.
It has been asserted that windows does not honor the hosts file.
In order to block it in the firewall, you have to know exactly
what to block. And they can change it at will...or have alternates
if one fails to get thru the firewall.
Since they own the system, they can circumvent a software firewall.
It's a lot like congress making laws. They hide the stuff you
don't want in stuff you do want.
There are applications that attempt to track microsoft evasion of
blocks.
Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
Yep, ASSimilated :-(
How about hardware firewalls?
Given that Windows 10 comes with a built-in peer-to-peer viral
self-replication, I think you'd have a hard time getting any firewall to
work... unless there are no peers visible. The only sane way to make
that happen is in virtualisation.
M Philbrook
2016-02-05 02:45:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
I wonder if there's any way to firewall any attempts by Micro$oft to
perform updates??
...Jim Thompson
That's been discussed at length.
It has been asserted that windows does not honor the hosts file.
In order to block it in the firewall, you have to know exactly
what to block. And they can change it at will...or have alternates
if one fails to get thru the firewall.
Since they own the system, they can circumvent a software firewall.
It's a lot like congress making laws. They hide the stuff you
don't want in stuff you do want.
There are applications that attempt to track microsoft evasion of
blocks.
Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
No, not really. Our place of business is gearing to switch to
linux boxes, as many as possible.

We have experimented with some automation software on Win10, its
not acceptable. Latency at random is so bad that we have devices
drop out at critical moments and some of the devices we can't even
communicate with because there no supported automation driver for it.

Yes, its a mess for serious automation use.

Jamie
Dave Platt
2016-02-05 18:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by M Philbrook
Post by mike
Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
No, not really. Our place of business is gearing to switch to
linux boxes, as many as possible.
I've been wondering...

A lot of commercial product development takes place within the context
of fairly strict nondisclosure agreements, where one party agrees to
take proper measures to ensure the security of information belonging
to another party, and to not release this information to a third party
without explicit authorization.

The Windows 10 EULA allows Microsoft to monitor a great deal of a PC's
usage and behavior, including what applications are used, what files
are opened, what keystrokes are entered on the keyboard, what words
are spoken to Cortana (or perhaps even within Cortana's hearing), etc.

Question: what are the chances that somebody is going to decide that
using Windows 10 for a project under NDA is an unacceptable legal
risk, because the party using Windows 10 has already granted Microsoft
the right to collect information that would be forbidden from any
disclosure under the NDA?

What are the implications for the DoD, for defense contractors, and
for any health-care organization operating under Federal HIPPA rules?
Jan Panteltje
2016-02-05 18:48:00 UTC
Permalink
On a sunny day (Fri, 5 Feb 2016 10:03:54 -0800) it happened
Post by Dave Platt
Post by M Philbrook
Post by mike
Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
No, not really. Our place of business is gearing to switch to
linux boxes, as many as possible.
I've been wondering...
A lot of commercial product development takes place within the context
of fairly strict nondisclosure agreements, where one party agrees to
take proper measures to ensure the security of information belonging
to another party, and to not release this information to a third party
without explicit authorization.
The Windows 10 EULA allows Microsoft to monitor a great deal of a PC's
usage and behavior, including what applications are used, what files
are opened, what keystrokes are entered on the keyboard, what words
are spoken to Cortana (or perhaps even within Cortana's hearing), etc.
Question: what are the chances that somebody is going to decide that
using Windows 10 for a project under NDA is an unacceptable legal
risk, because the party using Windows 10 has already granted Microsoft
the right to collect information that would be forbidden from any
disclosure under the NDA?
What are the implications for the DoD, for defense contractors, and
for any health-care organization operating under Federal HIPPA rules?
What *I* do not understand is why in a country with so many class action lawsuits,
there is no large group of people who ask microsoft to replace that crap OS.

Again, if I had a car that behaved like that, rented or leased or bought, I would want a good working replacement.
And having your car towed away while driving for an 'update' would be a well, unimaginable.

So where are those lawyers now that REALLY can save 10 million users 10 million hours
of irritation, say save the economy, give back to teh economy 10e7 * 10e7 work hours,
or as free time to the users, depending on what they do.
Automation was supposed to HELP people and make things go faster,
computers are part of that.

So MY recommendation is start a website, get a couple of good lawyers, get people to sign up for a class
action lawsuit and get rid of the Dictator and crap programmers for profit in Redmond.
Close it, compensate the people.
Justice
:-)
George Herold
2016-02-06 03:35:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Fri, 5 Feb 2016 10:03:54 -0800) it happened
Post by Dave Platt
Post by M Philbrook
Post by mike
Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
No, not really. Our place of business is gearing to switch to
linux boxes, as many as possible.
I've been wondering...
A lot of commercial product development takes place within the context
of fairly strict nondisclosure agreements, where one party agrees to
take proper measures to ensure the security of information belonging
to another party, and to not release this information to a third party
without explicit authorization.
The Windows 10 EULA allows Microsoft to monitor a great deal of a PC's
usage and behavior, including what applications are used, what files
are opened, what keystrokes are entered on the keyboard, what words
are spoken to Cortana (or perhaps even within Cortana's hearing), etc.
Question: what are the chances that somebody is going to decide that
using Windows 10 for a project under NDA is an unacceptable legal
risk, because the party using Windows 10 has already granted Microsoft
the right to collect information that would be forbidden from any
disclosure under the NDA?
What are the implications for the DoD, for defense contractors, and
for any health-care organization operating under Federal HIPPA rules?
What *I* do not understand is why in a country with so many class action lawsuits,
there is no large group of people who ask microsoft to replace that crap OS.
Well the first problem is that MS has more lawyers. But other wise I agree.
Way back when I loved DOS. I had different config.sys files, and autoexec's.
I had this feeling I knew a bit about what was going on underneath.
Pretty much now most of america has given up and bowed to the MS god.
If someone could come up with a linux system "made for the masses",
(who don't want to play with their computer config.) that could work.

George H.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Again, if I had a car that behaved like that, rented or leased or bought, I would want a good working replacement.
And having your car towed away while driving for an 'update' would be a well, unimaginable.
So where are those lawyers now that REALLY can save 10 million users 10 million hours
of irritation, say save the economy, give back to teh economy 10e7 * 10e7 work hours,
or as free time to the users, depending on what they do.
Automation was supposed to HELP people and make things go faster,
computers are part of that.
So MY recommendation is start a website, get a couple of good lawyers, get people to sign up for a class
action lawsuit and get rid of the Dictator and crap programmers for profit in Redmond.
Close it, compensate the people.
Justice
:-)
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
2016-02-06 03:39:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Herold
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Fri, 5 Feb 2016 10:03:54 -0800) it happened
Post by Dave Platt
Post by M Philbrook
Post by mike
Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
No, not really. Our place of business is gearing to switch to
linux boxes, as many as possible.
I've been wondering...
A lot of commercial product development takes place within the context
of fairly strict nondisclosure agreements, where one party agrees to
take proper measures to ensure the security of information belonging
to another party, and to not release this information to a third party
without explicit authorization.
The Windows 10 EULA allows Microsoft to monitor a great deal of a PC's
usage and behavior, including what applications are used, what files
are opened, what keystrokes are entered on the keyboard, what words
are spoken to Cortana (or perhaps even within Cortana's hearing), etc.
Question: what are the chances that somebody is going to decide that
using Windows 10 for a project under NDA is an unacceptable legal
risk, because the party using Windows 10 has already granted Microsoft
the right to collect information that would be forbidden from any
disclosure under the NDA?
What are the implications for the DoD, for defense contractors, and
for any health-care organization operating under Federal HIPPA rules?
What *I* do not understand is why in a country with so many class action lawsuits,
there is no large group of people who ask microsoft to replace that crap OS.
Well the first problem is that MS has more lawyers. But other wise I agree.
Way back when I loved DOS. I had different config.sys files, and autoexec's.
I had this feeling I knew a bit about what was going on underneath.
Pretty much now most of america has given up and bowed to the MS god.
If someone could come up with a linux system "made for the masses",
(who don't want to play with their computer config.) that could work.
you don't to play with configs, just install something like ubuntu


-Lasse
mike
2016-02-06 06:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Herold
If someone could come up with a linux system "made for the masses",
(who don't want to play with their computer config.) that could work.
George H.
Good idea.
Hop over to the linux news groups and suggest that.
I'm sure they'll recognize the opportunity and get right on it.
;-)
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-06 06:35:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike
Hop over to the linux news groups and suggest that.
I'm sure they'll recognize the opportunity and get right on it.
;-)
Mike is a fucking retard and a prolific "it should just work" Linux
newsgroup troll.
Jan Panteltje
2016-02-06 09:19:02 UTC
Permalink
On a sunny day (Fri, 5 Feb 2016 19:35:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened George
Post by George Herold
Well the first problem is that MS has more lawyers. But other wise I agree.
Way back when I loved DOS. I had different config.sys files, and autoexec's.
I had this feeling I knew a bit about what was going on underneath.
Pretty much now most of america has given up and bowed to the MS god.
If someone could come up with a linux system "made for the masses",
(who don't want to play with their computer config.) that could work.
Although I am not really a big fan, I installed Ubuntu on my laptop
after removing what was likely some Samsung version of XP.

It installed in a few minutes, everything worked, GUI for those who only use point and click.
And a great help community.

After I had Linux working that way, I added Slackware, as Slackware is mainly the work of one person
and very linear in its inner configs, and started the more complex stuff.
I do not remove Ubuntu as it is my backup if every thing fails.

But any system has a learning curve.
I could not even have used the early 1998 SLS Linux if I had not used Unix before, and had a good book on Unix as help.
What to type at that command line, what editor, what keys to use in it, etc etc.
How to configure your network!
As far as that is concerned you would like the Linux conf files ( in /etc/ ) if you liked the old scripts like bat files or whatever it was.
It is not difficult. I have hundreds of scripts in /usr/local/sbin/ that have names that are executed as commands.
My computah speaks English.
Tom Gardner
2016-02-06 09:59:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Fri, 5 Feb 2016 19:35:02 -0800 (PST)) it happened George
Post by George Herold
Well the first problem is that MS has more lawyers. But other wise I agree.
Way back when I loved DOS. I had different config.sys files, and autoexec's.
I had this feeling I knew a bit about what was going on underneath.
Pretty much now most of america has given up and bowed to the MS god.
If someone could come up with a linux system "made for the masses",
(who don't want to play with their computer config.) that could work.
Although I am not really a big fan, I installed Ubuntu on my laptop
after removing what was likely some Samsung version of XP.
It installed in a few minutes, everything worked, GUI for those who only use point and click.
And a great help community.
I had a similar experience on my daughter's Samsung laptop;
the major difference was that installing a fully updated Ubuntu
took about 1 hour as opposed to around 24 hours for a fully
updated XP.

More interesting is that MS actively dissuaded me from installing
XP....

The laptop's HD went AWOL, so I got a new HD and reinstalled XP
from CD using the product keys printed on the bottom of the
laptop. Everything went well until the reboot, when a *MS*
text-based window appeared saying "shan't, won't, product key,
etc".

MS said their text meant Samsung should replace it. Samsung said
it was an MS issue. Rinse and repeat.

MS refused to help. Samsung would only help if I paid them
the retail cost of an XP disk.

MS's refusal to allow me to reinstall something I had already
bought lost them a customer, permanently. Nowadays I do
almost everything in Xubuntu (bugger this flat touchscreen
nonsense) with only a few things in an XP VM image. I'm not
sure what I'm going to do with a gliding simulator with 3D
graphics, though.
krw
2016-02-06 14:39:58 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 5 Feb 2016 19:35:02 -0800 (PST), George Herold
Post by George Herold
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Fri, 5 Feb 2016 10:03:54 -0800) it happened
Post by Dave Platt
Post by M Philbrook
Post by mike
Eventually, the resistance will subside. People will bend over
and accept whatever MS shoves up their...
In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand outraged usenet
denizens are inconsequential.
You will be assimilated.
No, not really. Our place of business is gearing to switch to
linux boxes, as many as possible.
I've been wondering...
A lot of commercial product development takes place within the context
of fairly strict nondisclosure agreements, where one party agrees to
take proper measures to ensure the security of information belonging
to another party, and to not release this information to a third party
without explicit authorization.
The Windows 10 EULA allows Microsoft to monitor a great deal of a PC's
usage and behavior, including what applications are used, what files
are opened, what keystrokes are entered on the keyboard, what words
are spoken to Cortana (or perhaps even within Cortana's hearing), etc.
Question: what are the chances that somebody is going to decide that
using Windows 10 for a project under NDA is an unacceptable legal
risk, because the party using Windows 10 has already granted Microsoft
the right to collect information that would be forbidden from any
disclosure under the NDA?
What are the implications for the DoD, for defense contractors, and
for any health-care organization operating under Federal HIPPA rules?
What *I* do not understand is why in a country with so many class action lawsuits,
there is no large group of people who ask microsoft to replace that crap OS.
Well the first problem is that MS has more lawyers. But other wise I agree.
Way back when I loved DOS. I had different config.sys files, and autoexec's.
I had this feeling I knew a bit about what was going on underneath.
Pretty much now most of america has given up and bowed to the MS god.
If someone could come up with a linux system "made for the masses",
(who don't want to play with their computer config.) that could work.
Linux made for those "who don't want to play with their computer
config" is oxymoronic.
Post by George Herold
George H.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Again, if I had a car that behaved like that, rented or leased or bought, I would want a good working replacement.
And having your car towed away while driving for an 'update' would be a well, unimaginable.
So where are those lawyers now that REALLY can save 10 million users 10 million hours
of irritation, say save the economy, give back to teh economy 10e7 * 10e7 work hours,
or as free time to the users, depending on what they do.
Automation was supposed to HELP people and make things go faster,
computers are part of that.
So MY recommendation is start a website, get a couple of good lawyers, get people to sign up for a class
action lawsuit and get rid of the Dictator and crap programmers for profit in Redmond.
Close it, compensate the people.
Justice
:-)
Tom Gardner
2016-02-06 14:45:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Linux made for those "who don't want to play with their computer
config" is oxymoronic.
Android?
Chromebooks?
I'd include Apple's OSs, but they are BSD.
krw
2016-02-06 15:16:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 14:45:56 +0000, Tom Gardner
Post by Tom Gardner
Post by krw
Linux made for those "who don't want to play with their computer
config" is oxymoronic.
Android?
Not a good example of a reliable OS, at least as it exists in the
wild.
Post by Tom Gardner
Chromebooks?
Know nothing about it (why would I?).
Post by Tom Gardner
I'd include Apple's OSs, but they are BSD.
Never used that, either, but Linux <> unix.
Tom Gardner
2016-02-06 16:52:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 14:45:56 +0000, Tom Gardner
Post by Tom Gardner
Post by krw
Linux made for those "who don't want to play with their computer
config" is oxymoronic.
Android?
Not a good example of a reliable OS, at least as it exists in the
wild.
Post by Tom Gardner
Chromebooks?
Know nothing about it (why would I?).
Well, now you do. They are linux underneath.
Post by krw
Post by Tom Gardner
I'd include Apple's OSs, but they are BSD.
Never used that, either, but Linux <> unix.
Neither is BSD.

Unix is not a product, it is a concept. There are many
instantiations of that concept, including Linux. One
very successful early 80s instantiation, Xenix, was
made by Microsoft.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-05 19:04:19 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:03:54 -0800, Dave Platt wrote:

snipped the JamieTard's post.
Post by Dave Platt
I've been wondering...
A lot of commercial product development takes place within the context
of fairly strict nondisclosure agreements, where one party agrees to
take proper measures to ensure the security of information belonging to
another party, and to not release this information to a third party
without explicit authorization.
The Windows 10 EULA allows Microsoft to monitor a great deal of a PC's
usage and behavior, including what applications are used, what files are
opened, what keystrokes are entered on the keyboard, what words are
spoken to Cortana (or perhaps even within Cortana's hearing), etc.
Question: what are the chances that somebody is going to decide that
using Windows 10 for a project under NDA is an unacceptable legal risk,
because the party using Windows 10 has already granted Microsoft the
right to collect information that would be forbidden from any disclosure
under the NDA?
What are the implications for the DoD, for defense contractors, and for
any health-care organization operating under Federal HIPPA rules?
I already posted the declaration that gives a hint.

Windows 10 is even less secure than Hillary Clinton's e-mail server.

You have a very good point, and someone providing such a document should
include statements regarding such things, IMO.

And Microsoft should be required to provide a single point and click
method of fully sequestering and securing any machine where such behavior
is desired by the machine's owner.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-05 19:03:48 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:03:54 -0800, Dave Platt wrote:

snipped the JamieTard's post.
Post by Dave Platt
I've been wondering...
A lot of commercial product development takes place within the context
of fairly strict nondisclosure agreements, where one party agrees to
take proper measures to ensure the security of information belonging to
another party, and to not release this information to a third party
without explicit authorization.
The Windows 10 EULA allows Microsoft to monitor a great deal of a PC's
usage and behavior, including what applications are used, what files are
opened, what keystrokes are entered on the keyboard, what words are
spoken to Cortana (or perhaps even within Cortana's hearing), etc.
Question: what are the chances that somebody is going to decide that
using Windows 10 for a project under NDA is an unacceptable legal risk,
because the party using Windows 10 has already granted Microsoft the
right to collect information that would be forbidden from any disclosure
under the NDA?
What are the implications for the DoD, for defense contractors, and for
any health-care organization operating under Federal HIPPA rules?
I already posted the declaration that gives a hint.

Windows 10 is even less secure than Hillary Clinton's e-mail server.

You have a very good point, and someone providing such a document should
include statements regarding such things, IMO.

And Microsoft should be required to provide a single point and click
method of fully sequestering and securing any machine where such behavior
is desired by the machine's owner.
M Philbrook
2016-02-06 02:55:19 UTC
Permalink
In article <n92rmk$1cep$***@gioia.aioe.org>, ***@DecadentLinuxUser.org
says...
Post by DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
snipped the JamieTard's post.
Post by Dave Platt
I've been wondering...
A lot of commercial product development takes place within the context
of fairly strict nondisclosure agreements, where one party agrees to
take proper measures to ensure the security of information belonging to
another party, and to not release this information to a third party
without explicit authorization.
The Windows 10 EULA allows Microsoft to monitor a great deal of a PC's
usage and behavior, including what applications are used, what files are
opened, what keystrokes are entered on the keyboard, what words are
spoken to Cortana (or perhaps even within Cortana's hearing), etc.
Question: what are the chances that somebody is going to decide that
using Windows 10 for a project under NDA is an unacceptable legal risk,
because the party using Windows 10 has already granted Microsoft the
right to collect information that would be forbidden from any disclosure
under the NDA?
What are the implications for the DoD, for defense contractors, and for
any health-care organization operating under Federal HIPPA rules?
I already posted the declaration that gives a hint.
Windows 10 is even less secure than Hillary Clinton's e-mail server.
You have a very good point, and someone providing such a document should
include statements regarding such things, IMO.
And Microsoft should be required to provide a single point and click
method of fully sequestering and securing any machine where such behavior
is desired by the machine's owner.
What's your problem? They kicked you off the short bus did they?

After reading your content I woud say they are missing a passenger.

Most likely exceesive window licking.

Jamie
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-06 04:15:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by M Philbrook
says...
snip Something you are too stupid to understand.
Learn to snip, retard.
Post by M Philbrook
Post by DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
I already posted the declaration that gives a hint.
Windows 10 is even less secure than Hillary Clinton's e-mail server.
You have a very good point, and someone providing such a document should
include statements regarding such things, IMO.
And Microsoft should be required to provide a single point and click
method of fully sequestering and securing any machine where such
behavior is desired by the machine's owner.
What's your problem?
Immature putzes like you, for one thing.
Post by M Philbrook
They kicked you off the short bus did they?
You are about as mature as a freshly laid turd.
Post by M Philbrook
After reading your content I woud say they are missing a passenger.
This, coming from a punk who cannot even spell, and uses 30 year old
jokes to attempt to make a point.
Post by M Philbrook
Most likely exceesive window licking.
That's twice on both counts.

What's the matter, immature twit? Is being busted and being called the
immature 'spade' you are getting to you?

The word is "would", idiot.

The word is "excessive", idiot.

And 'short bus' jokes are only about 30 years outdated, pathetic chump.
What's next, a trailer park 'jab'? Grow the fuck up, childish punk.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
2016-02-05 01:07:15 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:00:07 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

snip
Post by Jim Thompson
I wonder if there's any way to firewall any attempts by Micro$oft to
perform updates??
...Jim Thompson
Windows 10 is even more security vulnerable than Hillary Clinton's email
server was.
Jim Thompson
2016-02-06 17:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
Anyone know about the safety/validity of "GWX Control Panel"....

<http://tinyurl.com/qhtb4ag>

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Jim Thompson
2016-02-06 17:19:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 06 Feb 2016 10:11:27 -0700, Jim Thompson
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by Winfield Hill
OK, I'll admit it, I'm mostly a Windows user. I have four or five Windows 7
machines, filled with all kinds of design / authoring / instrument interface /
simulation & embedded stuff / etc., software and drivers, much of it fairly old
stuff that works well for me. (Windows 7 compatibility mode works well). I
suspect many other engineers share my situation and preferences.
There are rumors that Windows 10 may be better / safer than Windows 7. And
Microsoft is making a serious push to get us to accept the free Windows 10
upgrade. But I'm afraid of some kind of meltdown. I'm wondering how many of
you have upgraded and what your experiences were.
Anyone know about the safety/validity of "GWX Control Panel"....
<http://tinyurl.com/qhtb4ag>
...Jim Thompson
More info...

<http://tinyurl.com/pzzpkn8>

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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